Local advice please :)

[bottomrunner]

i would go dry as well
make sure you shop around
check the prices of ALL the shops around
think you will be surprised at the range of prices
for the same suit

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Hi Vlada:

I'm a weenie in the cold too. I can/have worn mine to 37 degrees, as I have said before, with no ill effects.

I do occassionally have "issues" with air staying in my feet, but it's only when I'm slamming a pile of air into my suit to get that added amount of warmth. Bascially that's fixed by NOT putting too much air in.

I do have a lighter set of thermals, CT-200's, but I can't say as I remember if I have the same problem with them though, as I don't wear them much anymore.

I must say, after a week and a bit of using my Weezles diving the Empress this year, other than the times where I had glove leaks, I can say I wasn't the least bit cold.

Steve

 

[d33ps1x]

I think the word is conduction.

For info on the effects of water on thermal conductivity please refer to page 77 of the current PADI open water diver manual where it is explained in detail.

The information there relates to drysuit undergarments as follows.

Weezle underwear' absorbs quite a bit of water in it's fibers providing a complete thermal path from your skin to the outside of your suit shell which is in turn connected with the water.

Undergarments like the DUI's, Bare, etc, use 3M Thinsulate Type B which has the wonderful quality of absorbing less that 1% of it's own weight in moisture therefore providing a less thermally conductive buffer zone with the conductive properties of air or argon (or airgox ) vs water between your skin and the outside shell of your suit in the event of a flood or even profuse sweating. Other products like the Diving Concepts use Thinsulate type K which I believe has similar moisture 'properties. They also store more heat per metre cubed of fiber than the Weezle fibrer and therefore DON'T look like a thik ski suit for the same amount of thermal protection.

The end product of this? A buffer area of air that retains it's heat and allows you to stay warm in a flooded suit and an undergarment that is thinner and sleeker, which as a nice offshoot dishes out less dynamic instability by requiring less gas in the suit for the same amount of thermal protection.

This stuff isn't unproven theory, or something diving specific. It is based on proven applied science and commercial products that are tried, tested and true in all manner of environments. Type B was chosen by these companies because of the properties like low moisture capturing and the ability to remain thin yet still trap lots of heat per gram of fiber.

If one had only ever tried Weezles and hadn't tried a properly fitted DUI or DC TPS undergarment then it would be very difficult for one to understand and appreciate why it's a big difference. To further that concept if one had never flooded both the Weezle and DUI/Bare/DC/Etc products then one would also have great difficulty appreciating the benefit of the latter products over Weezle undergarments. As Tom said especially in February.

 

[knives]

I was just about to say the same thing....

 

[sparky30]

I think the word is conduction.

For info on the effects of water on thermal conductivity please refer to page 77 of the current PADI open water diver manual where it is explained in detail.

The information there relates to drysuit undergarments as follows.

Weezle underwear' absorbs quite a bit of water in it's fibers providing a complete thermal path from your skin to the outside of your suit shell which is in turn connected with the water.

Undergarments like the DUI's, Bare, etc, use 3M Thinsulate Type B which has the wonderful quality of absorbing less that 1% of it's own weight in moisture therefore providing a less thermally conductive buffer zone with the conductive properties of air or argon (or airgox ) vs water between your skin and the outside shell of your suit in the event of a flood or even profuse sweating. Other products like the Diving Concepts use Thinsulate type K which I believe has similar moisture 'properties. They also store more heat per metre cubed of fiber than the Weezle fibrer and therefore DON'T look like a thik ski suit for the same amount of thermal protection.

The end product of this? A buffer area of air that retains it's heat and allows you to stay warm in a flooded suit and an undergarment that is thinner and sleeker, which as a nice offshoot dishes out less dynamic instability by requiring less gas in the suit for the same amount of thermal protection.

This stuff isn't unproven theory, or something diving specific. It is based on proven applied science and commercial products that are tried, tested and true in all manner of environments. Type B was chosen by these companies because of the properties like low moisture capturing and the ability to remain thin yet still trap lots of heat per gram of fiber.

If one had only ever tried Weezles and hadn't tried a properly fitted DUI or DC TPS undergarment then it would be very difficult for one to understand and appreciate why it's a big difference. To further that concept if one had never flooded both the Weezle and DUI/Bare/DC/Etc products then one would also have great difficulty appreciating the benefit of the latter products over Weezle undergarments. As Tom said especially in February.

Cool.. Thanks for the info.. Certainly makes sense.. I like your explanation better than Tom R's
I've never managed to flood my suit yet, so I guess its never been an issue before.. I'll have to try some of that new fangled underwear
Perfect timing too.. I need some new undies.. the old ones were getting a bit big on me...

 

[Scuba_Steve]

I can buy the science of it all, as it's a given.

I can't buy the application where it's stated that you will stay warm with a flooded suit. I really can't imagine, with the water absolutely everywhere inside the suit, where it would make much difference either way.......it's just damn cold! (Yes I've been flooded in both sets of undies). I'm assuming your undergarmets are not water-tight at the neck, arms and legs??

I'm looking for a couple applicants to test the theory. 39 degree water should be a good test.

I think it's similar to the argon tests done several years ago. The science is good, the application however, has a few more variables and unknowns which seem to make the arguement in favour of the tests performed which didn't seem to match the science.

I guess that's the difference between science "fact" and the scientific theory extrapolated from it.

If I had the coinage, I'd buy a 3rd set of undergarmets for a test myself. I don't think my current two sets would be fair comparison (200gm Thin, 400gm Weezle).

Steve

 

[artw]

I remember reading something a while back that the 400gm weazle was equivalent to the 200gm thins. (in what respect I don't remember)

 

[vlada]

I can buy the science of it all, as it's a given.

I can't buy the application where it's stated that you will stay warm with a flooded suit. I really can't imagine, with the water absolutely everywhere inside the suit, where it would make much difference either way.......it's just damn cold! (Yes I've been flooded in both sets of undies). I'm assuming your undergarmets are not water-tight at the neck, arms and legs??

I'm looking for a couple applicants to test the theory. 39 degree water should be a good test.

I think it's similar to the argon tests done several years ago. The science is good, the application however, has a few more variables and unknowns which seem to make the arguement in favour of the tests performed which didn't seem to match the science.

I guess that's the difference between science "fact" and the scientific theory extrapolated from it.

If I had the coinage, I'd buy a 3rd set of undergarmets for a test myself. I don't think my current two sets would be fair comparison (200gm Thin, 400gm Weezle).

Steve

I recently completed a reverse test of sorts - diving fully flooded CF200 with Diving Concepts 400g in 66F water Vs diving same semi-wet drysuit with Weezle Extreme as undies

With Weezle, last year, i was comfortable in 60-66F water - not too hot and definitely not cold

With DC in in 66F water, i had to keep flooding my DS with water to avoid having a heat stroke. Every time i'd flood the suit, there would be 2 min when i would be comfortable, and then i would get too hot again - that darn thinsulate just wanted to keep me warm no matter what!

So, yes, it does keep you warm - even when you really do not want it ;-))

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Wow, you really don't like the cold!

Slightly off the main theme, but I'm dying of heat stroke in my Weezles in 66F water! And I'm the biggest weenie-man I know when it comes to cold!

I find 45F just about right.

Artw has almost got me looking into the Thins 200gm for a test this weekend. Dang I hate tests where I know I might be asking to get cold.

On the other hand, someone may be talking me into a DC just because I gotta know if I feel the difference.

 

[artw]

well my last probably 50 dives in my drysuit I've been wet anyway. now that I've replaced the zipper and the neck. ahh. its nice to be actually DRY. and warm. and I am only using what's equivalent to 100gm thins. (aquilon brand stuff). and MEC fleese

when I go back to Escoumins in 4 weeks I'll flood my suit with 32F water and get my buddy to take a pic.