Local dive shops are really taking the pi$$!

[MikeS]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
They don't ask to see the books, or the sales receipts, I'm sure of it.

I took my TX100 in for service. There was a problem with the first stage (subject of another post) requiring that it be sent to the distributor (Aqualung). They required a copy of the receipt. Fortunately I had purchased it at an LDS (the only regulator that I have) and was able to produce the receipt. So now Aqualung knows where I purchased it and exactly how much I paid for it.

What would they do if they found out I’d been given a bigger than allowable discount? I’m not sure.

Mike

 

[Dive Source]

MikeS once bubbled...


What would they do if they found out I’d been given a bigger than allowable discount? I’m not sure.

Mike

They only care that you bought it from an authorized dealer. What you paid for it does not matter to them as far as you are concerned.

Hope this helps

 

[cornfed]

OneBrightGator once bubbled...
Don't blame your LDS, they are not setting the price, they're required by the manufacturer to sell at a certain price, that's why they are an authorized dealer

Has anyone seen Genesis?

 

[MikeS]

Dive Source once bubbled...


They only care that you bought it from an authorized dealer. What you paid for it does not matter to them as far as you are concerned.

Hope this helps

I was thinking more along the lines of would they confront the LDS with the evidence if they had given a bigger discount than allowed by the distribution agreement.

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
OK, so call me stupid.

If I have a guy coming into my shop, and says he'll buy 2 set of Regs for X dollars. Now this is 20% below what I'm told the manufacturer requires me to sell them for, BUT I still would make, say 25% mark-up on them.

Would I sell them??? YUP.

How would the manufacturer REALLY know???

They don't ask to see the books, or the sales receipts, I'm sure of it.

Basically, there's no way in hell I'm gonna lose a sale if I don't have to. THe shop owner is # 1, the manufacturer, unless they wanna start to pay the mortgage is number 2.

It MAY be how it is, but is it enforceable in reality???


I'll bet it's not.

Sure a shop can get away with this. But...if I'm selling online I can't advertise for less than what the manufacturers tell me I can sell for. Some even have language in their dealer agreements forbiding you to put on your web site that customers should call for prices. So...nobody would buy from my web site would they?

So, I'm stuck with a small local market. If you sell low volume you must sell for more.

A bunch of the manufacturers decided to let us sell online just this year. They still have the pricing restrictions though so who's going to buy from us. I had heard some were going to make that change so I dumped money into having an online store built but when I saw the new rules I didn't even bother to get it hosted. Any one want to buy a really nice full featured online store?

BTW, I got cought offering discounts in the store. A guy asked for a price and I gave him a good one. Apparantly it wasn't good enough though because he called another dealer and tried to use my price to get that store to go lower. The other dealer got mad and called the manufacturer who promptly called and threatened to pull my dealership.

I'd be happy to deal to make a good sale but I can't trust you unless I know you.

 

[MikeFerrara]

MikeS once bubbled...


I was thinking more along the lines of would they confront the LDS with the evidence if they had given a bigger discount than allowed by the distribution agreement.

Mike

Absolutly yes. See my post above. At one time I don't think they really tried very hard to enforce it but believe it or not they seem to be getting tougher about it.

 

[Freeflyer]

gedunk once bubbled...


1.) Local source of scuba knowledge and support, not all LDS's or employees are unknowledgable about scuba.

I agree, and if I'm going on their trips, I'm going to be paying them the rate they charge, same as everyone else.


2.) Local source for training. Kinda hard to get that from LP.

If I'm taking the training, I'm paying for the training.

3.) Local source for gas. LP selling gas now?

I guess I'll pay for gas, same as all the other divers.

4.) Local source for last minute items needed.

For which I'll pay, same as everyone else.

5.) As an instructor, gives me a place to rent student gear

Fair enough, I'm not an instructor, your relationship with the shop is different.

6.) Buying local supports your local economy

Certainly does, but I don't support shops that require me to pay 50% extra to shop locally.

7.) Last but not least, local source of scuba comraderie. IMO, well over half the fun of diving is the friends you make and keep. Dive shops are a traditional place, not the only place, to do this.

Sure, so are clubs. You don't have to buy from a club to have cameraderie.

LeisurePro is a very viable option but try to imagine diving w/o the LDS. Personally, in my area, and for my reasons, i can't. In many cases, that makes the higher prices reasonable to me.

The way I see the LDS developing is more along the lines of a supply house for novices and a service agency for experienced divers. I will always be prepared to pay a little extra to support local industries, but when they try and shaft me with 50-70% mark up, then I'm not playing their game. They are going to have to change with the times. The internet is having a massive effect on shopping. The ability to be part of a large community and have vastly increased information available to you is shifting the perceptions of the buying public.

The argument that you'll get some free air fills for your additional cost doesn't work out in real life. Lets see, I'll charge you an extra $800 on your purchases and give you some free air fills and a $50 discount on your next training course. Hmm, let me think about that one for a moment.

If leisurepro are capable of making a working model like this, without the authorised distributorship, then the LDS is going to have to change with them. The difference in cost just in what I would be charged for two reg sets and two computers is less than it cost my wife and I to go to Cozumel this year.

Now that's what I call added value.

J.

 

[Genesis]

First, the idea that the manufacturer is some evil ugly corporation while the LDS is this lilly-white abused poor small businessperson is pure BUNK.

If your LDS tried to run that line past 'ya, that just marks them as a liar along with the rest. Are you willing to trust your life to a liar? Remember, this is your LIFE here, and you NEED this LDS... (yes, that's sarcasm if you can't figure it out for yourself.)

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Talk to enough people about this and you'll find that many of the manufacturers are doing this because LDSs, as a group, told them that if they wanted them to sell their gear they had to provide "protection" from price competition.

You'll also find that all the manufacturers who have these "policies" (1) do not make any "agreement" on prices with dealers (that's illegal), but instead impose a "unilateral" policy, taking advantage of a legal loophope, and (2) claim that this is specifically to protect the "quality" that comes with their brand and the "customer support" that is supposed to be sold with their brand.

Well, ok, where's the support?

See my thread on dry suits in the Exposure Suit topic here. DUI, one of the "heavies" with these policies and a widely-regarded "cadillac" product in the industry, has no better support than I get buying a set of rubbers for my speargun!

So, despite the claimed reason for the "price protection", you don't get what is promised. What you get instead is a lighter wallet.

If the manufacturers ACTUALLY policed these policies and ACTUALLY monitored the service levels and ACTUALLY yanked dealerships for lack of available product and service INSTEAD of (or even in addition to!) the price complience, there'd be no problem.

But they don't - and the reason they don't is that its not the manufacturers desiring these policies - its the dealers, to protect them from someone who probably doesn't offer any better service (such seems to be impossible in this industry), but will offer a better price.

 

[TCDiver1]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

BTW, I got cought offering discounts in the store. A guy asked for a price and I gave him a good one. Apparantly it wasn't good enough though because he called another dealer and tried to use my price to get that store to go lower. The other dealer got mad and called the manufacturer who promptly called and threatened to pull my dealership.

I'd be happy to deal to make a good sale but I can't trust you unless I know you.

Man this sounds like many shops i know.

By the way, i have bought from MikeF and he would never ... ... sell below the recommended manufacturer minimum price.

He feels too strongly about supporting the manufacturers.

 

[cornfed]

Shaggy once bubbled...
LDS are good for one thing, telling you what bad choices you made when you bought your gear. If you visit enough of them you'll find out it's all junk. I have a couple that I like. The rest are like a visit to a used car lot. They have one goal in mind, get your wallet in their pocket.

Welcome to scubaboard. You've made such a nice first impression that I can't wait to hear what else you have to share with us.