Local dive shops are really taking the pi$$!

[Freeflyer]

OK, I'm a bit of a geek and I generally buy all my expensive tech products online.

I checked out the online sites for prices of the regs and computers that I'm interested in, and looked here for advice.

I understand the preference for going to your LDS, and so today I went to a few to do some comparison shopping.

Apeks ATX50/40 combination: Leisurepro $425 plus shipping, LDS $700 plus tax (7.25%).

Oceanic VT Pro: Leisurepro $600, LDS $810 plus tax, (currently on sale, otherwise nearer $900). The Vytec was $1200 with tax.

Ah, but everyone cries, with the LDS you get good local knowlege. Hmm, lets test this shall we!

I asked in two shops whether the VT pro could be switched for different gas mixes during a dive. One said, yes it can do that, no problem, it's just like the Suunto Vytec. 2nd shop, I'm not sure, let me check with one of the other guys, other guy says no, it won't you'd need the vytec for that. That's tech diving, and for that the vytec's the best computer on the market.

What about the regs. So I ask, what do I gain from getting the ATX200 over the 50. General consensus is, Oh it's a better unit. Better made, better performing, easier to breathe at depth. Will I notice a differnce. Maybe, maybe not.

Then there's the warranty issue. Well, Leisurepro has a great warranty of their own, and you're going to be paying for your servicing wherever you go. And at LDS prices, I could pretty much just buy another one after a year or so and still break even.

Ah, but I want to to buy 2 sets of each, for my wife and I. Surely the LDS will do me a good deal on that. Well no, one says their prices are already discounted and the other said that they aren't allowed to discount because of the manufacturers are setting the prices.

So what have I learned.

LDS's don't necessarily have skilled, knowlegable staff. I'm a technically savvy purchaser, and I learn way more about stuff by asking questions here than by going into the shops.

LDS's seem to cater to resort style divers (me up until now) who are interested in the latest colours, snazziest gear and the most that you can hang of your harness. (one shop was suggesting that I should buy several retractors and get everything off my wrists so it would be easier to get to! So I asked him if he regularly forgets where his hands are (I was grinning when I said that!)

General consensus, LDS's are ripping me off. Bottom line, my money's going to Leisurepro when I next buy my gear. I coudl buy a 3rd set with the differnce in cost and have a full back up of everything.

I don't mean to start a war here as I know this has been hashed over many times before, but I just felt the need to vent. This is the first time I've gone out prepared to spend this much money on dive kit ($2000), and I really couldn't believe the difference in cost would be that much. I just don't see the value I would get for the extra I would pay at the LDS.

Thanks for giving me room to sound off, and for all the great advice and education that I get here.

Cheers,

J.

 

[OneBrightGator]

Don't blame your LDS, they are not setting the price, they're required by the manufacturer to sell at a certain price, that's why they are an authorized dealer and LP is not, if they sell below and lose thier dealership where does that put them? And, if they aren't making as much money anymore how do you expect them to pay well-trained employees? Also, it would be cake for a bigtime manufacturer to trace regs back to the source and cut that off, but why do they care? They're making money no matter who they sell to. And don't forget, buying your Apeks regs supports these "screw the little guy" tactics, especially if you buy from LP.

Make the choice you're comfortable with, just make sure you're looking at the real picture.

Ben

 

[ElectricZombie]

Freeflyer once bubbled...
OK, I'm a bit of a geek and I generally buy all my expensive tech products online.

I checked out the online sites for prices of the regs and computers that I'm interested in, and looked here for advice.

I understand the preference for going to your LDS, and so today I went to a few to do some comparison shopping.

Apeks ATX50/40 combination: Leisurepro $425 plus shipping, LDS $700 plus tax (7.25%).

Oceanic VT Pro: Leisurepro $600, LDS $810 plus tax, (currently on sale, otherwise nearer $900). The Vytec was $1200 with tax.

No doubt about it, online is much cheaper. I would also state that you end up getting better customer service online too. Gator is right though, the manufacturers make them charge a certain price or that take away the shop's dealership.

Ah, but everyone cries, with the LDS you get good local knowlege. Hmm, lets test this shall we!

I asked in two shops whether the VT pro could be switched for different gas mixes during a dive. One said, yes it can do that, no problem, it's just like the Suunto Vytec. 2nd shop, I'm not sure, let me check with one of the other guys, other guy says no, it won't you'd need the vytec for that. That's tech diving, and for that the vytec's the best computer on the market.

What about the regs. So I ask, what do I gain from getting the ATX200 over the 50. General consensus is, Oh it's a better unit. Better made, better performing, easier to breathe at depth. Will I notice a differnce. Maybe, maybe not.

Don't ever go to a LDS to get advice on anything; it's a waste of time.

Then there's the warranty issue. Well, Leisurepro has a great warranty of their own, and you're going to be paying for your servicing wherever you go. And at LDS prices, I could pretty much just buy another one after a year or so and still break even.

The warranty you get from buying from the LDS doesn't mean much. I had some problems with some gear that I bought from the LDS and they acted like jerks about it.

Ah, but I want to to buy 2 sets of each, for my wife and I. Surely the LDS will do me a good deal on that. Well no, one says their prices are already discounted and the other said that they aren't allowed to discount because of the manufacturers are setting the prices.

It's true, the manufacturers set the price.

So what have I learned.

LDS's don't necessarily have skilled, knowlegable staff. I'm a technically savvy purchaser, and I learn way more about stuff by asking questions here than by going into the shops.

LDS's rarely ever have decent staff. You get much better advice here anyway.

LDS's seem to cater to resort style divers (me up until now) who are interested in the latest colours, snazziest gear and the most that you can hang of your harness. (one shop was suggesting that I should buy several retractors and get everything off my wrists so it would be easier to get to! So I asked him if he regularly forgets where his hands are (I was grinning when I said that!)

The LDS thrives on keeping customers ignorant. It's all about the money; they don't care if the gear they sell you works or not. The best gear ever made just happens to be the brand they sell.

General consensus, LDS's are ripping me off. Bottom line, my money's going to Leisurepro when I next buy my gear. I coudl buy a 3rd set with the differnce in cost and have a full back up of everything.

Same here. The LDS has ripped me off and treated me like crap.

I don't mean to start a war here as I know this has been hashed over many times before, but I just felt the need to vent. This is the first time I've gone out prepared to spend this much money on dive kit ($2000), and I really couldn't believe the difference in cost would be that much. I just don't see the value I would get for the extra I would pay at the LDS.

You don't gain anything purchasing gear from the LDS except a headache and a lighter wallet. There are a few good LDS's, but on the whole, most are not worth the time and effort. I've had a better experience buying online; cheaper prices and better customer service.

 

[theskull]

Given your experience so far, you have made the logical decision . . . so far.

A competent and conscientious LDS is a very valuable resource. And like anything good in retail, it is the exception.

1. Keep looking, visit some other shops.
2. Re-try the ones you already visited (maybe). Don't rule out a shop based on your experience with just one of their employees. Whenever possible, deal with the owner or manager of the store. If a better discount is possible, it will be the manager who can give it; they have the ultimate responsibility for the store, and may also know of special promotions, close-outs, inventory-reduction specials that can help you.
3. Rather than just asking for a discount, ask for a package deal. Often there are factory-authorized packages that price a reg/octo/console/bc at a much better price, or a trade-in allowance for a computer. You also might accept a certain number of free air fills or a discounted class in exchange for paying the higher price on a piece of equipment.

An LDS is invaluable when you need to run in and pick up a last-minute replacement or quick repair on the way to a dive trip. Also your best bet when you want to try something out before buying--if a rental isn't available, they may let you borrow one of the staff's personal gear item. They also CAN be a good source of advice--IF you get to know the staff and learn who knows their stuff. And perhaps it shouldn't be, but is true, that a regular customer is likely to get better advice and treatment than someone just getting comparative prices and asking why they can't beat the prices of wholesalepricegear.com (fictional url).

theskull

 

[hantzu701]

What's the big deal about the negative stuff from the LDS's? After one or two bad experiences, we've all figured out how the game is played. It's not that I embrace poor service and terrible prices, but it's something that I've grown to adjust for in my diving activies.

If there is a huge rock lying in the middle of the road, you can either drive around it or do something about it. Personally, I drive around it. I'd rather take my time/energy and go diving.

And, in any case, the scuba business is going to have to change anyway. Stuff like scubaboard and internet stores such as LP have disintermediated the LDS's. I guess it is like any other brick&mortar business. Either they adjust to these new realities, or they close down. Rumor is that 14 LDS have closed in the Chicago area in the last two years.

HanTzu

 

[Shaggy]

LDS are good for one thing, telling you what bad choices you made when you bought your gear. If you visit enough of them you'll find out it's all junk. I have a couple that I like. The rest are like a visit to a used car lot. They have one goal in mind, get your wallet in their pocket.

 

[Dive Source]

Shaggy once bubbled...
LDS are good for one thing, telling you what bad choices you made when you bought your gear. If you visit enough of them you'll find out it's all junk. I have a couple that I like. The rest are like a visit to a used car lot. They have one goal in mind, get your wallet in their pocket.

This is WAY harsh !

Last time I checked LP and other online discounters they are also out to make money and are not up for sainthood.

There are good and bad shops in every business and to paint every LDS with your description in prejudiced and unfair.

I am sorry to see that your experiances have been so bad that you would paint everyone who runs an LDS with such a dirty brush as I do not think most people feel this is true.

Ouch...Comments like yours hurt those who never hurt you or anyone else for that matter and have worked hard for their customers and the betterment of the sport.

 

[DeepScuba]

OK, so call me stupid.

If I have a guy coming into my shop, and says he'll buy 2 set of Regs for X dollars. Now this is 20% below what I'm told the manufacturer requires me to sell them for, BUT I still would make, say 25% mark-up on them.

Would I sell them??? YUP.

How would the manufacturer REALLY know???

They don't ask to see the books, or the sales receipts, I'm sure of it.

Basically, there's no way in hell I'm gonna lose a sale if I don't have to. THe shop owner is # 1, the manufacturer, unless they wanna start to pay the mortgage is number 2.

It MAY be how it is, but is it enforceable in reality???

I'll bet it's not.

 

[TCDiver1]

Freeflyer once bubbled...
I just don't see the value I would get for the extra I would pay at the LDS.

1.) Local source of scuba knowledge and support, not all LDS's or employees are unknowledgable about scuba.

2.) Local source for training. Kinda hard to get that from LP.

3.) Local source for gas. LP selling gas now?

4.) Local source for last minute items needed.

5.) As an instructor, gives me a place to rent student gear

6.) Buying local supports your local economy

7.) Last but not least, local source of scuba comraderie. IMO, well over half the fun of diving is the friends you make and keep. Dive shops are a traditional place, not the only place, to do this.

I don't own a LDS. However, i don't think all LDS's are evil because their prices are higher than leisurepro. Certainly some are but like gator stated, look at the whole picture before you make your purchase decision.

LeisurePro is a very viable option but try to imagine diving w/o the LDS. Personally, in my area, and for my reasons, i can't. In many cases, that makes the higher prices reasonable to me.

 

[TCDiver1]

DeepScuba once bubbled...
OK, so call me stupid.

If I have a guy coming into my shop, and says he'll buy 2 set of Regs for X dollars. Now this is 20% below what I'm told the manufacturer requires me to sell them for, BUT I still would make, say 25% mark-up on them.

Would I sell them??? YUP.

How would the manufacturer REALLY know???

They don't ask to see the books, or the sales receipts, I'm sure of it.

Basically, there's no way in hell I'm gonna lose a sale if I don't have to. THe shop owner is # 1, the manufacturer, unless they wanna start to pay the mortgage is number 2.

It MAY be how it is, but is it enforceable in reality???

I'll bet it's not.

Hey, most would agree with what your saying but would you want to bet your job and livelihood on it? Once you lose a manufacturer, they are gone. Once you have lost all the big names, your shop becomes less viable.

Pretty strong stuff if its your families bread and butter.