Locals to Poor for PADI

[MSilvia]

a pack of smokes is $4.00 (apx) in the US.

I don't mean to hijack, but that might be a regional thing. I've seen them as high as $6.75 a pack in Boston. You can be pretty sure they aren't paying that much for a pack of Krong Thip lights.

 

[ninjamuzo]

"local" where?!

On another point, maybe all divers should pay a local tax to dive, that money could be used for conservation and for uses such as subsidising local participation in diving. It works in the thai national marine parks and there's no reason why it couldn't be extended to all dive operations.

Nice in an ideal world but it would never work here.

As a diver I am sure that you have seen the marine police boats tied up at their wharfs. You have probably never seen out on the water howevere because they sell the fuel they receive for extra personal money.

With the exception of a couple of marine parks there is no conservation or ptotection action taken by the authorities hence the bomb craters from fisherman even at so called protected sites.

I've been here for over 16 years now and I have a lot os stories about the so called environmental protection by the local authorities. Abut the only organization that does any good here is WildAid.

 

[DORSETBOY]

Zoooooom. Right over the top of the ladder.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't agree that the right to scuba dive is right up there with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

funnily enough I wasnt trying to say that it was.. I'll try and help you understand..

I was saying that tourists diving in poor regions should pay an extra levy so that the locals could learn to dive and thus appreciate the marine environment we as divers want protected.

Hope that's a bit clearer for you!

 

[MechDiver]

I was saying that tourists diving in poor regions should pay an extra levy so that the locals could learn to dive and thus appreciate the marine environment we as divers want protected.

Hope that's a bit clearer for you!

The tourists are already supporting the locals by going there. Then you want to tax them for it? Crap.
If the locals are that poor, I would assume they are more concerned with eating than looking at coral.

You are more than welcome to pay for any scuba classes you think you need to though.

 

[Mako Mark]

The tourists are already supporting the locals by going there. Then you want to tax them for it? Crap.
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I have to agree here, especially in thailand, the locals mostly hate the water and rarely swim. They particularly hate backpackers and only tolerate them for their money, in fact the Thai word for backpacker is Ki Nok which translates to bird sh*t, cause they are white smelly and all over the place.

As for PADI, they have translated much of the materials including instructor exams into Thai, they are doing their bit.

I hate it when I get asked for a local discount. The price is the price dude, it is not based on nationality it is based on business principles. It is nearly as bad when laws are passed that exclude certain ethnicities from complying with fisheries regulations because they have indigenous rights etc. If there is a regulation to manage the resource, it should be applied evenly not based on nationality or ethnicity.

 

[Wolverine]

Well, I have been diving in Asia for 12 years and have seen fairly dramatic changes in the dive sites and their surroundings. Tourism/ Eco-tourism has generally improved the lot of some of the locals around these dive sites, but to say that most have benefited will be incorrect. A lot of the locals still derive a large part of thier livelihood from fishing/harvesting from the ocean. With increased demand for coral fishes/sea cucumbers/sharks fins etc from the Asian markets, it is very difficult economically to prise them away from this form of livelihood.
To preserve the reefs, as well as to benefit the locals, taxation (which will be passed back to the locals in the form of grants, subsidies, education etc) for use of the reefs may be the best way to reduce the stress on the divesites. By making it economically better to preserve rather than destroy, the locals will be incentivised to maintain the reefs.
One place which I see this working is Manado/Bunaken Marine Park. Implementation, however, is always more difficult than theory. The sum of it is that we cannot have good diving without paying for it. The best results come from co-operation between conservationists, government and locals on balancing the economic and environmental needs of the divesite/local people.

 

[Peter Lim]

Local too poor for PADI?

If they are poor, they won’t even want to take up diving as a hobby or to pass-time. Should they decide to pick up, mostly as a job.

There are many local DM, Instructors in Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia. During the course, they don’t get paid, the operator will feed them. When they are good enough, they will be attached and does what a DM do, still without paid, just food. If they are lucky, the divers will reward him with a little token of appreciation. Once they are done, they will work for the operators with little paid and free to go after sometime. From then, they will work in Sipadan, Layang Layang and so on with income and able to feed their families, still as a job, not hobby.

 

[DORSETBOY]

The tourists are already supporting the locals by going there. Then you want to tax them for it? Crap.
If the locals are that poor, I would assume they are more concerned with eating than looking at coral.

You are more than welcome to pay for any scuba classes you think you need to though.

eh??!!!

Im talking about helping the locals to apreciate the value of THEIR marine environment by exposing them to it through diving. If they appreciate it more they ARE less likely to overexploit it or damage it in other ways. WE then benefit as tourists diving there as the conditions are better.

Talking of CR*P, lets have a look at where the money goes that we pay as tourist divers to the dive shops... virtually all to the family that runs the dive shop who then pay a pittance to the thai staff and SLAVE LABOUR WAGES to Burmese boat boys working ILLEGALLY on their dive boats. If you think that this is acceptable then there is something very wrong with you.

As to locals 'hating' backpackers as cancunmark suggests, only found that they hated the rude arrogant ones who had no respect for the locals or showed them no consideration.

 

[Ringo]

I often dive in Thailand and am sometimes bothered when I think about the disparities. Of course we could think about a dive costs being equivalent to a locals monthly wage but that is not a road I want to go down now. My real question is how difficult it must be for a local in Thailand or the Philippines to get certified with PADI or another agency. I am sure if they work for a diveshop there may be a break for them, but that is not always the case. I am not trying to stir up many guilt here just want to know if there is some scholarship fund or form of help. I think locals should be able to get certified at a reduced cost. Well I may be wrong and would like some feedack on this. thanks

Good point to raise Durian! I am sure quite a lot of people are wondering about this issue. So I think it would be in your interest to check out this website: www.doct-phuket.org and look up the articles of association. "Promoting awareness & career development in the Diving Sport for Thai citizens" is 1 of their main agendas. The DOCT (Dive Operators of Thailand - Phuket Chapter) offers a Divemaster program where Thai citizens are trained from PADI Open Water through to the DM course free of charge.

Also recently the Labor Department in Krabi province has introduced the work permit condition that all working foreign instructors teach a Thai person up to professional level as from the first of July. The same conditions apply to foreign dive instructors working in Phuket province. This was already implemented on Phuket a couple of years ago.

Otherwise many dive operations in Thailand - at their own discretion - do teach Thai citizens (who can swim and express enthusiasm for scuba divng) free of charge or at a very discounted affordable rate. Admittedly the Thais working in the diving industry do have a better chance with their connections.

As for the Philippines we are going there in a couple of weeks - and like you - I am also interested to know how the locals can afford to dive or at least learn how to.

Hope this info does answer some questions...

 

[Mako Mark]

eh??!!!

Im talking about helping the locals to apreciate the value of THEIR marine environment by exposing them to it through diving. If they appreciate it more they ARE less likely to overexploit it or damage it in other ways. WE then benefit as tourists diving there as the conditions are better.

.

That is a fine utopian idea, but the "tragedy of the commons" means that they will continue exploiting it until they percieve it is more profitable for them to conserve it. Changing the opinion of people whose existence relies on natural resources, is one of the greatest challenges of resource management.
.

eh??!!!

Talking of CR*P, lets have a look at where the money goes that we pay as tourist divers to the dive shops... virtually all to the family that runs the dive shop who then pay a pittance to the thai staff and SLAVE LABOUR WAGES to Burmese boat boys working ILLEGALLY on their dive boats. If you think that this is acceptable then there is something very wrong with you.
.

I agree with you and I dont think it is acceptable either. I believe that locals SHOULD have equity in their own industry and have worked very hard (in Mexico) to help this problem. It is one of my pet peeves.
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As to locals 'hating' backpackers as cancunmark suggests, only found that they hated the rude arrogant ones who had no respect for the locals or showed them no consideration.

Five years living in Thailand, learned to read and speak Thai, got to know more than a few Thais, and a little about what they say behind the average tourists back! Perhaps I could have put it more diplomaticly by saying that they are:

A proud and highly nationalistic, ethnocentric kingdom and society.

I stand by my statement that they "tolerate" tourists.. JMHO.