Locating Virgin Caves

[crawford]

I'm currently doing a little research on an area that has never had a solution cave discovered there. There is "highly porous" calcerous limestone in this area, to use the words of a geologist that did did a study of the area. This PHD also mentions a deep blackwater creek in this area that provides "continuous and major flow" from the underlying acquifer to a nearby lake.

This lake has an unusually high pH for the area (most are acidic due to swamp runnoff, tannic water). I've looked at topo maps, aerial photographs, and even an IR photo of the area mentioned, but nothing to pinpoint a search area for a possible spring/sinkhole. There's much more evidence that points to possible springs/solution cave (fluctuating color and flow with water table, etc.).

Any ideas on how to pinpoint a search area in this blackwater creek for a possible spring/sinkhole underneath? It's a pretty wide creek/swamp area. Looking for any ideas.

 

[LazyKevin]

Any ideas on how to pinpoint a search area in this blackwater creek for a possible spring/sinkhole underneath? It's a pretty wide creek/swamp area. Looking for any ideas.

Maybe if you can find some geological survey maps of the area, you could look for where the limestone layer intersects with the creek. That might narrow it down some.

-Kevin

 

[Mako Mark]

Crawford, this sounds VERY interesting, but I need a little more detail.

Are there wells or bores located in the watershed, and have you defined the groundwatershed boundaries. If so how?.

How deep is the gully that the creek is laying in?

Have you compared the creeks discharge with the recharge of hte watershed to see if you have a mass balance? if you dont, then you have some other form of leakage or recharge.

Have you investegated any hydrological tracer studies in the area?

How did the PhD student justify his "continuous and major flow" statement.

Why are you looking for phreatic conduits? Diving or Hydrological study?

If the watertable is close tot he surface, the IR photos should give you heathier vegitation over any significant conduit due to the increased access to water. Are there dendritic patterns of healthy vegetation across the watershed? If so these should corrolate with drainage patterns and therefore narrow your search.

Are there any other examples of phreatic Karst conduits in nearby drainage basins, and have you compared the geologly of those areas with the study area?

Is the creek down cutting or static with alluvial sediments?

sorry to pile you up with questions, but every answer breeds 10 questions. That is the nature of science huh.

 

[crawford]

Crawford, this sounds VERY interesting, but I need a little more detail.

How did the PhD student justify his "continuous and major flow" statement.

Why are you looking for phreatic conduits? Diving or Hydrological study?
QUOTE]

Cancun,
Let me answer your questions piecemeal, starting with these two:

This isn't a student's work, it's a report by a group of geologist at a university, lead by an accomplished professor in geology. He justified his conlcusions about the flow based on several observations, and I'd have to restudy his report to outline them well.

My reasons for doing this are purely fun/hobby/personal interest. I'm getting into cave diving and want to find some virgin cave to explore when I get full cave and beyond. I have a science background, but am no expert in geology or hydrology, etc. This area also has some unique geological formations which aren't completely understood, and finding phreatic conduit would I think help solve the mystery. I think it would also help bring additional and needed legislative protection to this area, which is under utilization pressure at the moment.

O.k. let me go back and answer a couple more that I can easily....

 

[crawford]

How deep is the gully that the creek is laying in?

Have you investegated any hydrological tracer studies in the area?

Are there any other examples of phreatic Karst conduits in nearby drainage basins, and have you compared the geologly of those areas with the study area?

Is the creek down cutting or static with alluvial sediments?

O.k., here goes:

The depth of the gully is only mentioned briefly in this one report as > 5m, which is about twice as deep as the lake it is feeding. The scientists cored the lake, and found an old incisement in the lake at the same depth as the creek. Their conclusion being that longshore transport, etc. caused sediment to fill in this creek that used to go through the lake area. I think that answers your question about the creek cutting or static.

I checked with another geologist at another local university who did an exhaustive bibliography on geological studies in the region, and he told me he has found no evidence of a dye trace study of any kind being performed, at least with respect to these "unexplained geologcial formations" I mentioned earlier. I asked him specially have any dye traces been performed.

As far as is there any phreatic Karst conduit in the area, I would at least there's not much (that we know about). This study that I'm keep referring to (which I only found about two weeks ago) mentions finding small springs along the river bed, and local tales saying these springs used to be larger. The water table in the area has dropped significantly due to utilization. The second geologist I mentioned said there are no evidence of springs in the are, so I'm contacting him now about the results of this study to get his opinion.

I can say this, this area is in the southeast U.S. and not in Florida. You're several hours from any real cave diving, so this would be very cool to find some "swamp cave" in the parts.

Alright, back to work, I'll try to knock the rest out later.......

 

[crawford]

Maybe if you can find some geological survey maps of the area, you could look for where the limestone layer intersects with the creek. That might narrow it down some.

-Kevin

LazyKevin,
I've been looking for any geological maps I can find, and the only one that focuses on this area (most are large area maps) shows that this entire area is underlain with limestone (old seabed), and the creek has cut through the overlaying clay/sediment into the limestone formation.

I have narrowed my search area down to a few sqare miles, maybe even one square mile that's very interesting, and I don't think there is any knowledge of what's in this specific area, but good point, I need to look and look.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm not sure where you're looking but besides Folrida there is cave diving going on in Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Indiana, Georgia and I even know of some one with a project in Ohio. Don't be surprised if you find something in the southeast.

 

[crawford]

I'm not sure where you're looking but besides Folrida there is cave diving going on in Tennessee, Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Indiana, Georgia and I even know of some one with a project in Ohio. Don't be surprised if you find something in the southeast.

Yeah, there's sump diving going on all over the place. I assume most of those other states you mention are mostly sump diving (except TN and GA that I think have some open springs, I've read of some in IN as well). If there's anything where I'm looking it would surprise folks, though the more I look into it the more less crazy it seems.

Sorry for being all 007 but I want to keep this close to the chest for the time being.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yeah, there's sump diving going on all over the place. I assume most of those other states you mention are mostly sump diving (except TN and GA that I think have some open springs, I've read of some in IN as well). If there's anything where I'm looking it would surprise folks, though the more I look into it the more less crazy it seems.

Sorry for being all 007 but I want to keep this close to the chest for the time being.

The Missouri caves we dive are springs.

 

[crawford]

The Missouri caves we dive are springs.

You're right, how could I forget.

Speaking of.... someone in MO told me Roubidoux flow is down and is clearing up. He's been diving there recently. I hope to get down there in the next couple weeks.