Looking for new wing

[Nemrod]

"several inches" is a bit of an overstatement. I just measured my Halcyon plate and found the middle of the plate to be about 1 1/4" off the floor.

No, because if an STA is used it adds and additional 3/4 inch give or take. Yes, an easy two inches or even more depending on the bits and pieces and particular plate, my old Hmmerhead plate is near three inches with STA. With a roll control wing about 1.5 inches. And as far as I am concerned any additional is not needed and is detrimental. A snowball at the top of a hill has more potential energy than a snowball at the bottom of a hill, why perch the tank up on top of a center channel to begin with and then try to constrain it with an STA or roll control tabs on the wings that mostly just hang off the edge of the center channel? It makes no sense and is opposite of optimal.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

No, because if an STA is used it adds and additional 3/4 inch give or take. Yes, an easy two inches or even more depending on the bits and pieces and particular plate, my old Hmmerhead plate is near three inches with STA. With a roll control wing about 1.5 inches. And as far as I am concerned any additional is not needed and is detrimental. A snowball at the top of a hill has more potential energy than a snowball at the bottom of a hill, why perch the tank up on top of a center channel to begin with and then try to constrain it with an STA or roll control tabs on the wings that mostly just hang off the edge of the center channel? It makes no sense and is opposite of optimal.

The doubles plates that have a steep bend are even worse for single tank use and when you add a STA it puts the tank so high off the divers that people start turtling. However, plates with steep bends are better for doubles because the length of the 5/16” stainless all-thread is shorter between the plate and where it goes into the doubles bands. Steep plates are for doubles.
The flatter plates, like Tobin’s plate, were tweaked to try and make them better for singles, but the fact remains that it’s still a wide flat plate and will only fit so well on your back. Add a STA and it gets worse, but maybe not as bad as a steep plate. But then flatter plates suffer a little when it comes to doubles because the channel doesn’t reach in quite as far as a steep bend plate, so the flatter doubles style plates really are kind of a turd and not optimal for either.
Why oh why is it so hard for them to jump off the flat doubles plate train and come up with something more original and better for single tank diving??? instead of copying the same old thing.

 

[happy-diver]

And also importantly would it really be so difficult to put the top slots closer together where they should be
so the webbing lays across muscle

 

[ams511]

After all the learnimg about the singles paltes I realized that at least for me feels like a marketing gimmick.

The single plates look to me as a metal version of the old plasric tank harness.

Except for the Freedom Plate there really is no "singles plate". At least in the U.S., I am not sure about other locations.

The fabric plates like the Oxycheq, Mares, Apeks, and others are designed for traveling divers where weight is an issue. There were not designed specifically for single tank diving, but most vacation diving is single tank, so no big loss there. A doubles vacation diver would bring a light conventional backplate if weight is an issue.

The flat plate that Nemrod shows was designed for double hose regulators by Vintage Double Hose. The cut at the top of the plate is to accommodate the can of a double hose. Yes it can only be used with a single tank but that was the limitation of the design. The purpose was to be able to locate the can of the double hose at the ideal spot and keep it there.

Eric's inspiration for the freedom plate did come from the vintage plates according to his past posts. Although he did refine the design over the years, so it is not a copy of anything. People that bought them love them, so I don't think it is a gimmick. You rarely see them for sale on the second-hand market.

 

[ams511]

The Scubapro S Tek plates are not cut for tank bands.

I remembered that after I posted. I re-watched some of the online videos and I must say that is the most gimmicky BP/W on the market. It looks like the illegitimate child of the X-Tek and Hydros Pro.

 

[ams511]

I'm an Australian modifier of other peoples manufacture

Is that the prototype for the new "Liberty Plate"? I see it has a built-in single tank adaptor.

 

[ams511]

Any plate that is designed with a central ridge for attachment of doubles bands and therefore perches the single tank on that center ridge several inches further from the body than would a flat singles plate is a doubles plate adapted to single tank use either by a STA or "roll control" tabs built into the wing. The cylinder is naturally unstable so perched or it would not need either roll control or a STA. It is compromise of one thing, a doubles plate intended to mount each cylinder close to the divers back, to a singles use by perching the tank atop that center ridge channel originally intended for attachment of doubles bands. The issue is still there, no matter a STA or roll control, the single cylinder is pushed away form the divers back and therefore to regain reach to the valve the cylinder is then hiked up behind the head. This ruins trim and increases the separation of the diver's CG and CB.

I pointed out that a center outlet may not interfere with the regulator on a doubles plate adapted to single tank use due to the tank therefore being hiked up behind the head and much further from the diver's back. However, a purpose built single tank flat plate most certainly would have interference of the center outlet and regulator first stage or at least be very crowded in that area.

I didn't start diving yesterday. I saw the evolution of the backplate from it origins in the cave community to the mainstream. Yes, the original plates were built for doubles because the cave community dove with back-mounted doubles. However, as time progressed and the backplate was refined, it could be used for both singles and doubles (excluding Light Monkey and the S-Tek). You are and Eric are the only people making the distinction between singles and doubles plates. You are calling fabric travel plates and double hose plates singles plates, when they were designed for another purpose and being single tank only was a limitation of the design.

Anything round or cylindrical is going to be unstable, be it on a perch or flat surface. I am sure when you travel with tanks you block them so they don't roll. The roll control tabs only help to align the wing to the tank those little rods are not going to stop the tank from rolling. The rubber pads that grip the cylinder and the cam band keep it from rolling.

I have seen your argument before about the distance between the tank and the plate. The DSS fans used to make a point that Tobin's plates had a shallower bend. I took out all my plates and measured them and from memory I think the difference between any of them was more than half an inch. I don't think an inch or two will make that much of a difference (if any) in trim.

While I (like you) am interested in gear and have far too much of it. At the end of the day it is not the equipment that makes the dive, it is the people, location, and weather.

 

[ams511]

Calling everything a STA to me is more confusing than just calling what is actually a STA a STA, a bolt-on single tank adapter. I think it’s time to separate out what it actually is and not just use it as a blanket term for everything that is used to stabilize a tank.
Everything else is s tank stabilization system, whether it’s built into the design of the plate or part of the design of the wing. I don’t call roll control logs on a wing a “built in STA”, it’s not a STA!
And neither is a single tank stabilization design built into a plate. A STA also has cam band slots on the STA.
This is a STA:

I think you are the only one that is getting confused. I think most people understand what is being communicated.

• Built in Cinch™ system and Single Tank Adapter, STA on the STANDARD Carbon Fiber Pro backplate

 

[Jcp2]

I think you are the only one that is getting confused. I think most people understand what is being communicated.

View attachment 811553

• Built in Cinch™ system and Single Tank Adapter, STA on the STANDARD Carbon Fiber Pro backplate

Golem Stream Backplate - SubGravity

Inspired by expedition divers’ minimalist needs and designed by traveling rebreather divers. This stainless steel backplate weighs only 2 lbs. and due to it’s unique reversed design it will accommodate rebreather scrubber canisters as well as single tanks without the need for cumbersome and...

sub-gravity.com

 

[ams511]

Golem Stream Backplate - SubGravity

Inspired by expedition divers’ minimalist needs and designed by traveling rebreather divers. This stainless steel backplate weighs only 2 lbs. and due to it’s unique reversed design it will accommodate rebreather scrubber canisters as well as single tanks without the need for cumbersome and...

sub-gravity.com

Not sure why you posted this. When Jakob sold them at Golem gear it came in two versions: regular and reversed. I think the regular was for doubles and the reversed was for rebreathers. Golem Gear specialized in rebreathers but also sold regular open circuit gear.

Here is something similar in a full plate version.