Lost Buddy Marker

[karstdvr]

The majority of this discussion seems to focus on exit marker/separation of buddy in a clear vis situation. There are instances where this has been in diminished/zero vis......... writing a note is not going to work there.

I really would want to plan for the worst case scenario,because when Murphy strikes there are usually other things occuring. When the original occurence happened there may have been clear viz,but in the process of searching,panic,etc that clear water will become very turbid in a hurry. Hence,any navigation marker placed the wrong way is a hazard to all in the cave.

 

[D_B]

Good thread and interesting to read
I especially like the wetnotes with short concise info on who and what's going on .. no guesswork or interpretation needed
(note, I have no training in this environment)

 

[PfcAJ]

Not real big fan of this (sorry),but having an arrow pointing in the wrong direction can never be justified. If a lost buddy situation occurs,there could be as an example a silt out,now things have been complicated because of navigation arrows are pointing the wrong way,hence innocent parties could become victims. The accident at Madison that happened quite a few years ago was complicated by a line arrow pointing the wrong way in a silt out,and downloaded dive computers showed this navigation faux pas contributed to the accident. When something goes wrong ie lost buddy I don't think it is ever a good idea to change conventional wisdom in reference to navigation arrows.

I certainly respect that, and I too am not a fan of dropping contrary arrows. However, an arrow with my name on it pointing to our exit (which most likely will be the same as the rest will be pointing) with a backup light on it is pretty bizarre and unique to anyone else coming a long. If he can see (once again, most likely), that arrow could save him some time or reaffirm which way all of our spools, stages, etc are.

Naturally, if I find my buddy, that arrow is coming out anyway.

After thinking about this for a bit, I think I'll drop a cookie with the arrow to distinguish it even more with the light between the two.

 

[LiteHedded]

I certainly respect that, and I too am not a fan of dropping contrary arrows. However, an arrow with my name on it pointing to our exit (which most likely will be the same as the rest will be pointing) with a backup light on it is pretty bizarre and unique to anyone else coming a long. If he can see (once again, most likely), that arrow could save him some time or reaffirm which way all of our spools, stages, etc are.

Naturally, if I find my buddy, that arrow is coming out anyway.

After thinking about this for a bit, I think I'll drop a cookie with the arrow to distinguish it even more with the light between the two.

drop the wrench. then i'll know it's you

 

[PfcAJ]

Consider it done. I'll drop 1 wrench, 1 screwdriver, and 1 backup light. Of course, my pockets would be nearly empty after that!

 

[Cave Diver]

I really would want to plan for the worst case scenario,because when Murphy strikes there are usually other things occuring. When the original occurence happened there may have been clear viz,but in the process of searching,panic,etc that clear water will become very turbid in a hurry. Hence,any navigation marker placed the wrong way is a hazard to all in the cave.

I agree with this and poor viz could be one of the contributing factors to the buddy separation in the first place (thinking about the scooter accident at LR several years back).

If I find myself alone in the cave, my first priority is to find the line. Once the line is secured I need to assess my situation. Do I know where I am, do I know where my buddy went, how much gas do I have, what are the conditions of the cave where I'm at, what is my depth, runtime, deco obligation etc.?

Knowing this is going to determine how much time I have to 1) find my buddy and 2) make my way out. In a major silt out, I'm going to follow the line to clear(er) water where I expect to find my buddy has done the same. If not, I'm going to drop a light and a cookie with a note on the exit side of the light. Then start a search for him dependent on the conditions above. If I don't find him by the time I'm forced to leave I'll revise the note to indicate I've exited.

 

[piikki]

Not real big fan of this (sorry),but having an arrow pointing in the wrong direction can never be justified. If a lost buddy situation occurs,there could be as an example a silt out,now things have been complicated because of navigation arrows are pointing the wrong way,hence innocent parties could become victims. The accident at Madison that happened quite a few years ago was complicated by a line arrow pointing the wrong way in a silt out,and downloaded dive computers showed this navigation faux pas contributed to the accident. When something goes wrong ie lost buddy I don't think it is ever a good idea to change conventional wisdom in reference to navigation arrows.

Sorry, not sure if I followed. I see the problem but was is your suggestion? How do you mark your spot, so you have reference to the exit? I was taught this – when separated you immediately orient yourself and drop an arrow before beginning the real search part. And you drop the arrow to point towards YOUR exit, the one you have verified, naturally. In most cases it would be everyone’s closest exit but it might not be.

 

[piikki]

So there are now two ways people are using the "left cave" back up light method.

Some are dropping the light right away when they start searching and using time to swap messages attached to the light: 1) I am looking for you (but get out if you find this?), 2) I have now quit searching and left the cave.

Some others are using the light like the exit cookie (cookie with the text "I've left the cave") is used, and only dropping the light when they finish their search and leave the cave as a sign that the search is over.

Which method you think makes more sense and why?

 

[Cave Diver]

So there are now two ways people are using the exit-light method.

Some are dropping the light right away when they start searching and using time to swap messages attached to the light: 1) I am looking for you (but get out if you find this?), 2) I have now quit searching and left the cave.

Some others are using it like the exit cookie (cookie with the text "I've left the cave") and only dropping the light when they finish their search and leave the cave as a sign that the search is over.

Which method you think makes more sense and why?

I prefer the drop the light immediately because its an immediate sign to my buddy that I've found the line (i.e. he knows I'm not off line in a siltout somewhere), it provides a beacon (seeing another light in a cave when you're alone would be reassuring and you'd go check it out) and it increases the odds of another team assisting more quickly.

If I have 20 minutes of available search time, but wait til I'm at the end of that to drop the light, that's 20 potential minutes another team may have been alerted and searching as well.

 

[DCBC]

I prefer the drop the light immediately because its an immediate sign to my buddy that I've found the line (i.e. he knows I'm not off line in a siltout somewhere), it provides a beacon (seeing another light in a cave when you're alone would be reassuring and you'd go check it out) and it increases the odds of another team assisting more quickly.

If I have 20 minutes of available search time, but wait til I'm at the end of that to drop the light, that's 20 potential minutes another team may have been alerted and searching as well.

I agree. The LED light sure offers a big advantage in such a scenario. Great discussion!