dvleemin
Contributor
If this guy had died, I think he would have been a shoo-in for a Darwin Award.
Darryl
Darryl
Lost Diver Found In Cave
- Thread starter Mr Crab
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Burke
Guest
If you make someting idiot proof, some will just make a better idiot.
otter-cat
Guest
I agree that you can't possibly post all the dangers associated with cave diving on a sign which you want divers to read, but the sign currently in use seems like it lacks something to me. Sure, it says in no uncertain terms that cave diving without proper training can cost you your life, but it doesn't really emphasize HOW MUCH MORE LIKELY it is that cave diving w/o the training WILL cost you your life. Lots of stuff the training agencies teach can save your life, but so much of the procedures that are taught are (rightly) done for the sake of being extra-conservative, that some divers may not take the cave warnings as seriously as they should. For example, DCS can kill you, and safety stops are an integral part of reducing DCS, but neglecting to do a safety stop (or accidentally missing one) on occasion usually does not pose all that much of a risk of death to a recreational diver. However, cave diving is a different story altogether, where the risks of NOT following the agencies' advice are MUCH GREATER.
The article mentioned that there are 5 major "rules" of cave diving. If the sign said something like:
1. Do NOT attempt to cave dive without proper training.
2. Do NOT attempt to enter this cave without using guide lines.
3. Do NOT attempt to enter this cave without...etc (rules 3,4 &5).
Failure to heed any of the above warnings poses a grave risk of DEATH well above that inherent in recreational diving.
I think it might be more effective in deterring untrained divers from entering underwater caves. It will help give divers some idea of WHY they are not prepared to enter the cave, without going into all the specific details of the dangers associated with cave diving.
The article mentioned that there are 5 major "rules" of cave diving. If the sign said something like:
1. Do NOT attempt to cave dive without proper training.
2. Do NOT attempt to enter this cave without using guide lines.
3. Do NOT attempt to enter this cave without...etc (rules 3,4 &5).
Failure to heed any of the above warnings poses a grave risk of DEATH well above that inherent in recreational diving.
I think it might be more effective in deterring untrained divers from entering underwater caves. It will help give divers some idea of WHY they are not prepared to enter the cave, without going into all the specific details of the dangers associated with cave diving.
VTWarrenG
Guest
otter-cat,
I don't believe such a sign would work. You see, there's so much to learn about something so seemingly simple as "use a guideline" that the advice would be useless.
Many open-water divers have died in caves while using a length of ski-rope as a guideline. Ski-rope is made out of polypropelene, which floats. People have died by becoming entangled in their own foolish guideline improvisations.
You can't possibly explain the use of a guideline, or the rule of thirds, in a few paragraphs on a sign. Leaving out any details would be even more dangerous than leaving out the rules altogether -- if the sign simply says "use a guideline" it opens up the cave to foolish people with ski-rope.
The sign says what it should -- "if you're not cave certified, you don't have the equipment or training to survive in this cave." It shouldn't be any more specific, or any less specific. If someone wishes to ignore the sign, there's little else we can do for him.
- Warren
I don't believe such a sign would work. You see, there's so much to learn about something so seemingly simple as "use a guideline" that the advice would be useless.
Many open-water divers have died in caves while using a length of ski-rope as a guideline. Ski-rope is made out of polypropelene, which floats. People have died by becoming entangled in their own foolish guideline improvisations.
You can't possibly explain the use of a guideline, or the rule of thirds, in a few paragraphs on a sign. Leaving out any details would be even more dangerous than leaving out the rules altogether -- if the sign simply says "use a guideline" it opens up the cave to foolish people with ski-rope.
The sign says what it should -- "if you're not cave certified, you don't have the equipment or training to survive in this cave." It shouldn't be any more specific, or any less specific. If someone wishes to ignore the sign, there's little else we can do for him.
- Warren
Burke
Guest
I don't think listing the rules would be a good idea at all because people would think, "ok, I got all the stuff they said I needed, I won't get hurt" ofcourse they are still breaking rule #1, but hey the sign was all the training they really think they need. I think that if having the grim reaper on the friggen sign isn't good enough then I say let em go for it, to stupid to deserve to live any way. But for you guys that think the sign should be better, how about a story, like the one in Rodales about the two open water dives that got killed in the cave.
http://www.scubadiving.com/training/lessons/april02.shtml
Make it fairly big and say "YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE PROCEEDING INTO THE CAVE"
and then at the end say "ok retard if after reading that you still want to die, to bad, you used up all your air reading the story, now go home."
http://www.scubadiving.com/training/lessons/april02.shtml
Make it fairly big and say "YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE PROCEEDING INTO THE CAVE"
and then at the end say "ok retard if after reading that you still want to die, to bad, you used up all your air reading the story, now go home."
otter-cat
Guest
My suggestion about posting the rules wasn't intended to include detailed information on how to properly cave dive -- clearly that would be way too complicated. Also, I didn't intend that the wording in my post be the exact wording for the sign. For example, I would probably say something more like "Do NOT attempt to enter this or any underwater cave without using guidelines specifically designed for this purpose, and being trained in the use of the appropriate guidelines" and "Do NOT attempt to enter this or any underwater cave without being trained in and understanding the Rule of Thirds" and so forth.
My idea, and it is just a preliminary suggestion, was that by giving a few more specifics, the sign might be more effective in deterring untrained divers, because it may help some of them realize that they need to be aware of more considerations than in recreational diving. If a diver reads the sign and wonders "what IS the rule of thirds, anyway?" or "what do guidelines specifically designed for this purose have that my rope doesn't have?" then at least they will have recognized that there are some more things involved in cave diving than what they had already thought about.
Obviously, there are some that will still ignore the sign, telling themselves that they DO know enough about guidelines, the rule of thirds, and the other rules, even though they are not trained. But those divers are likely to ignore any of the warnings discussed so far.
Another suggestion: Include the statistics on the sign? Things like the fact that only 4 out of 480 missing cave divers were rescued alive, and the percentage of cave-diving deaths that were associated with breaking any of "the rules" should certainly give some rec divers enough reason to reconsider before they go into the cave without following the rules.
My idea, and it is just a preliminary suggestion, was that by giving a few more specifics, the sign might be more effective in deterring untrained divers, because it may help some of them realize that they need to be aware of more considerations than in recreational diving. If a diver reads the sign and wonders "what IS the rule of thirds, anyway?" or "what do guidelines specifically designed for this purose have that my rope doesn't have?" then at least they will have recognized that there are some more things involved in cave diving than what they had already thought about.
Obviously, there are some that will still ignore the sign, telling themselves that they DO know enough about guidelines, the rule of thirds, and the other rules, even though they are not trained. But those divers are likely to ignore any of the warnings discussed so far.
Another suggestion: Include the statistics on the sign? Things like the fact that only 4 out of 480 missing cave divers were rescued alive, and the percentage of cave-diving deaths that were associated with breaking any of "the rules" should certainly give some rec divers enough reason to reconsider before they go into the cave without following the rules.
KZMAN
Guest
I 2nd that?
Similar threads
