Lost diver in Puget Sound

[puckvirus]

This was an AOW night dive. According to one of the participants, they were not told until they arrived at the site that the planned depth was 200 feet. When one of the new divers objected, the instructor assured them that it would be alright. As it turned out, that diver and his dive buddy bailed on the dive at 55 feet, due to current and poor vis conditions. The other four continued to the bottom ... the depth on one diver's computer registered 211 feet.

This instructor had no insurance at the time of the accident ...

You have got to be kidding here? [I know your not] The first big question I have is: Why did the dive shop allow this instructor to continue teaching without insurance? As I do understand it, most agency's require it to even be a dive master more less be an instructor? While I do understand this is a situation where the instructor is primarily at fault here; however after reading your statements I wonder about my above question and wonder if this accident could have been avoided if the dive shop prevented said instructor from teaching said class to begin with?

I do assume that most dive shops check (or have the responsibility) to check if their instructors have the correct credentials for teaching classes and that they [instructors] maintain insurance?

 

[cerich]

You have got to be kidding here? [I know your not] The first big question I have is: Why did the dive shop allow this instructor to continue teaching without insurance? As I do understand it, most agency's require it to even be a dive master more less be an instructor? While I do understand this is a situation where the instructor is primarily at fault here; however after reading your statements I wonder about my above question and wonder if this accident could have been avoided if the dive shop prevented said instructor from teaching said class to begin with?

I do assume that most dive shops check (or have the responsibility) to check if their instructors have the correct credentials for teaching classes and that they [instructors] maintain insurance?

I wish he was kidding.

The instructor had just been fired (I have heard for theft) by the shop he was teaching thru. His liability Insurance was thru the shops Group Insurance and when he was fired the shop did the right thing and did the appropriate notifications so that this instructor was no longer covered by the group policy. There is a slight possibility the Instructor purchased personal liability insurance to teach. If he did he didn't let NAUI know as they had him in the system as not insured and thus unable to teach. (For instance I got my renewal sticker from PADI in the mail, it is in non teaching status because PADI does not have proof of insurance from me. I have insurance but forgot to send them a copy of it because I take advantage of the automatic renewal. With the other agencies I teach (NAUI, TDI/SDI, ACUC) for I manually fill out the application and fax it in with a photocopy of my insurance, As soon as I fax the insurance into PADI they will change me to teaching status and send the sticker. In the meantime I would be stupid to even consider teaching a PADI course.

From what I have been told (which may be inaccurate). Some of the divers on the fateful dive were supposed to be taking a AOW with the instructor and thru the shop that weekend. From what I understand the instructor called them and offered to do it cheaper direct (which by itself can cause an instructor to lose his membership in NAUI). Then he planned a dive to 200 feet with them, one of the "students" had just completed OW and had less than 10 dives.....

I wish he had insurance, then Chads family would at least get something.

 

[nlbford]

I wish he was kidding.

The instructor had just been fired (I have heard for theft) by the shop he was teaching thru. His liability Insurance was thru the shops Group Insurance and when he was fired the shop did the right thing and did the appropriate notifications so that this instructor was no longer covered by the group policy. There is a slight possibility the Instructor purchased personal liability insurance to teach. If he did he didn't let NAUI know as they had him in the system as not insured and thus unable to teach. (For instance I got my renewal sticker from PADI in the mail, it is in non teaching status because PADI does not have proof of insurance from me. I have insurance but forgot to send them a copy of it because I take advantage of the automatic renewal. With the other agencies I teach (NAUI, TDI/SDI, ACUC) for I manually fill out the application and fax it in with a photocopy of my insurance, As soon as I fax the insurance into PADI they will change me to teaching status and send the sticker. In the meantime I would be stupid to even consider teaching a PADI course.

From what I have been told (which may be inaccurate). Some of the divers on the fateful dive were supposed to be taking a AOW with the instructor and thru the shop that weekend. From what I understand the instructor called them and offered to do it cheaper direct (which by itself can cause an instructor to lose his membership in NAUI). Then he planned a dive to 200 feet with them, one of the "students" had just completed OW and had less than 10 dives.....

I wish he had insurance, then Chads family would at least get something.

If all that is true, then I think the shop is on the hook, at least civilly, as well. If he's uninsured on his own and thus his agency lists him and unable to teach (if I am following correctly), then the shop shouldn't have been leting him teach, even under their insurance, and if they did, they shouldn't get away with just cancelling his policy through them and leaving Chad's family, their client via their instructor, without recourse.

 

[airsix]

If all that is true, then I think the shop is on the hook, at least civilly, as well. If he's uninsured on his own and thus his agency lists him and unable to teach (if I am following correctly), then the shop shouldn't have been leting him teach, even under their insurance, and if they did, they shouldn't get away with just cancelling his policy through them and leaving Chad's family, their client via their instructor, without recourse.

Why should the shop be on the hook for actions taken by a FORMER employee AFTER his employment was terminated?

-Ben

 

[cerich]

If all that is true, then I think the shop is on the hook, at least civilly, as well. If he's uninsured on his own and thus his agency lists him and unable to teach (if I am following correctly), then the shop shouldn't have been leting him teach, even under their insurance, and if they did, they shouldn't get away with just cancelling his policy through them and leaving Chad's family, their client via their instructor, without recourse.

Did ya read what I wrote?:huh: The shop didn't let him teach, they cancelled him from the group insurance before the dive Chad died on.

The instructor called his students from when he worked for the shop and told them he was no longer there and offered them less expensive instruction direct with him.

He had an ethics problem there and KNOWING as he did that he didn't have insurance and thus could not teach he missrepresented himself as able to teach.

Then he planned a dive that the least experienced and dense instructor on the planet wouldn't have planned and someone died.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If all that is true, then I think the shop is on the hook, at least civilly, as well. If he's uninsured on his own and thus his agency lists him and unable to teach (if I am following correctly), then the shop shouldn't have been leting him teach, even under their insurance, and if they did, they shouldn't get away with just cancelling his policy through them and leaving Chad's family, their client via their instructor, without recourse.

The shop didn't know he was teaching this class ... they had severed their relationship with him already. He was doing this on his own ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

Cerich, thank you for policing your classes and students. I would be careful how heresay is used, but I think you did the right thing re: your students' dive on the Big O.

I wish that the previous event in Tacoma (3 years ago) were followed up and taken as seriously.

 

[cerich]

Cerich, thank you for policing your classes and students. I would be careful how heresay is used, but I think you did the right thing re: your students' dive on the Big O.

I wish that the previous event in Tacoma (3 years ago) were followed up and taken as seriously.

Thanks, regarding my students, I asked them if what I was told was true, they admitted it.....


Regarding this case, I don't have first hand knowledge, only second and third hand and it is important to keep in mind that my comments (and absolute disgust and anger) may very well be misplaced if what I am hearing and reading is incorrect.

If there is even any truth at all in it then the instructor should be charged and allow the system to do its job.

 

[nlbford]

Sorry, as I said, if I was understanding correctly. I wasn't.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

Was the incident 3 years ago talked about here on SB? Is there a link to that or any other boards where it might have been talked about?