Low on air done right?
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Bubbletrubble
Contributor
@crispix:
There's been a great deal of quibbling on this thread. I'll try to keep my comments on the constructive side. The gas planning thing has been discussed at great length.
I'm familiar with the La Jolla Shores area. In fact, I do most of my local diving there. It's a wonderful, safe place for diving...even for beginners. I would say that it's even more appropriate for beginners than a shallower (25 - 30 fsw) La Jolla Cove dive, which can have significant surf, bad visibility, kelp "entanglements," and sharp rocks presenting navigational challenges.
One aspect of the dive profile that many on this thread don't know about is that a La Jolla Shores dive is a shore dive. This means that there isn't a boat that you have to locate once you surface. A team can surface at any point during a dive and still see the shore nearby. With an easy surface swim and typically no significant current, the dive team can make it to shore without difficulty.
I'm assuming that the dive in question was to the Main Wall (just west of Vallecitos). The edge of the wall there is located at 50 - 55 fsw. In some places the wall is as high as 7 - 8 ft. Often times this is used for the "canyon tour" at the end of OW certification dives. I mention this because if the beginner diver was certified in San Diego, then there's a very good chance that he was familiar with the dive site. In my opinion, this goes a long way in making the beginner diver feel more comfortable.
The topography from the Main Wall to the shore is very gently sloping sand -- there are no significant drop-offs. Often times, divers swim in along the bottom and end the dive in waist-deep water. There can be some surf to contend with, but most days it's only 1-2 ft waves. I'm posting this info so that others won't think it's reckless that you decided to take a beginner to this dive site.
For future dive planning with a beginner diver, I would head out directly west from Vallecitos. Using the proper line-ups, you can drop in about 20 feet from the edge of the canyon in 30 fsw water. This minimizes the amount of work they have to do to get to the canyon. Head north along the wall towards the Main Point...periodically checking the SPG of the beginner diver. Proceed slowly...and point out some of the life on the wall. The beginner will likely hit the turnaround pressure before making it to the Main Point. Even though I'm checking his gauge quite frequently, I generally tell the beginner diver to let me know when he hits 1500 - 2000 psi (if he's using an AL80 tank). Take a 90 - 110 degree heading back to shore. Emphasize to the beginner diver that it isn't a race to get back to shore. Tell him to take his time. There's lots to see in the shallows: guitarfish, sting rays, bat rays, leopard sharks, pipefish, and crabs. The safety stop is generally done while swimming in very slowly along the bottom. Often times you can find a convenient place to check out a pipefish at about 15 fsw.
Most times the beginner will hit 500 - 600 psi well after the safety stop has been completed. If that's the case, then simply give the "thumbs up" sign and end the dive at the appropriate time.
There's one more thing that I'd like to mention. I can totally understand why you and your buddy had HP100s whereas the beginner diver only had an AL80. For one, I don't think it's possible to rent a HP100 steel anywhere in the San Diego area. Since the beginner diver is renting some if not all of his gear, chances are that he's using an AL80. I could also understand why you wouldn't want to switch tanks with him. Doing so would give him a heavier tank and change the distribution of weight on his rig. If he's never used a HP100 before, he might have more problems managing the weight along his back. I know that some beginner divers complain that they have a tendency to turtle when using a HP100. Switching tanks would also require you to adjust your weighting (but I suspect that would be a trivial adjustment for you).
If you're still out there monitoring this thread, I hope that you found some of the info in this post useful. I also hope that you get another opportunity to dive with the newbie. It can be very rewarding to witness the growth/learning of a beginner diver...and know that you played a small part in it.
Have fun and dive safe...
There's been a great deal of quibbling on this thread. I'll try to keep my comments on the constructive side. The gas planning thing has been discussed at great length.
I'm familiar with the La Jolla Shores area. In fact, I do most of my local diving there. It's a wonderful, safe place for diving...even for beginners. I would say that it's even more appropriate for beginners than a shallower (25 - 30 fsw) La Jolla Cove dive, which can have significant surf, bad visibility, kelp "entanglements," and sharp rocks presenting navigational challenges.
One aspect of the dive profile that many on this thread don't know about is that a La Jolla Shores dive is a shore dive. This means that there isn't a boat that you have to locate once you surface. A team can surface at any point during a dive and still see the shore nearby. With an easy surface swim and typically no significant current, the dive team can make it to shore without difficulty.
I'm assuming that the dive in question was to the Main Wall (just west of Vallecitos). The edge of the wall there is located at 50 - 55 fsw. In some places the wall is as high as 7 - 8 ft. Often times this is used for the "canyon tour" at the end of OW certification dives. I mention this because if the beginner diver was certified in San Diego, then there's a very good chance that he was familiar with the dive site. In my opinion, this goes a long way in making the beginner diver feel more comfortable.
The topography from the Main Wall to the shore is very gently sloping sand -- there are no significant drop-offs. Often times, divers swim in along the bottom and end the dive in waist-deep water. There can be some surf to contend with, but most days it's only 1-2 ft waves. I'm posting this info so that others won't think it's reckless that you decided to take a beginner to this dive site.
For future dive planning with a beginner diver, I would head out directly west from Vallecitos. Using the proper line-ups, you can drop in about 20 feet from the edge of the canyon in 30 fsw water. This minimizes the amount of work they have to do to get to the canyon. Head north along the wall towards the Main Point...periodically checking the SPG of the beginner diver. Proceed slowly...and point out some of the life on the wall. The beginner will likely hit the turnaround pressure before making it to the Main Point. Even though I'm checking his gauge quite frequently, I generally tell the beginner diver to let me know when he hits 1500 - 2000 psi (if he's using an AL80 tank). Take a 90 - 110 degree heading back to shore. Emphasize to the beginner diver that it isn't a race to get back to shore. Tell him to take his time. There's lots to see in the shallows: guitarfish, sting rays, bat rays, leopard sharks, pipefish, and crabs. The safety stop is generally done while swimming in very slowly along the bottom. Often times you can find a convenient place to check out a pipefish at about 15 fsw.
Most times the beginner will hit 500 - 600 psi well after the safety stop has been completed. If that's the case, then simply give the "thumbs up" sign and end the dive at the appropriate time.There's one more thing that I'd like to mention. I can totally understand why you and your buddy had HP100s whereas the beginner diver only had an AL80. For one, I don't think it's possible to rent a HP100 steel anywhere in the San Diego area. Since the beginner diver is renting some if not all of his gear, chances are that he's using an AL80. I could also understand why you wouldn't want to switch tanks with him. Doing so would give him a heavier tank and change the distribution of weight on his rig. If he's never used a HP100 before, he might have more problems managing the weight along his back. I know that some beginner divers complain that they have a tendency to turtle when using a HP100. Switching tanks would also require you to adjust your weighting (but I suspect that would be a trivial adjustment for you).
If you're still out there monitoring this thread, I hope that you found some of the info in this post useful. I also hope that you get another opportunity to dive with the newbie. It can be very rewarding to witness the growth/learning of a beginner diver...and know that you played a small part in it.
Have fun and dive safe...
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First off, I'd like to say thank you to the OP and his buddy, for taking out a new diver, and I hope your experience here (either in the dive, or the thread) doesn't discourage you from doing that again.
There is no problem whatsoever with dissimilar tanks. When I take new divers out, I generally do it on doubled LP85s, and I'm certainly NOT going to lend them those! You did something similar by taking another buddy -- ensured your own redundancy, even though you had a pony as well. I find three man teams IDEAL for taking out new divers, because you can sandwich the new diver between the two experienced people, and that discourages them from darting away, and increases the amount of supervision they get.
People have already gone over the turn pressure, which wasn't really conservative enough, as you guys learned the hard way. Again, kudos to your buddy, who had the diving skills to accomplish an air-share, and kudos to the new diver, who appears to have done very well with that! It does sound as though you guys may have put him back on his own gas supply a bit early, and my only question is whether you shallowed up the dive when you realized how fast the new diver had gone through his air? That's something I do with new folks, if they are really hoovering -- I get them shallow, so that the gas lasts longer, and so that if there is any problem, the surface is a lot closer.
You've gotten a lot of flack here, but frankly, people's gas consumption is NOT a constant. It's quite possible that your new diver either got tired, got cold, or got nervous about his gas supply (or nervous about anything) and simply increased his consumption on the second half of the dive. Frequent checks, after he reached his turn pressure earlier than you expected, might have caught the situation sooner, but I'll confess to not having monitored newbies as closely as I should have, and getting unpleasant surprises. I haven't had to put anybody on my gas, mostly because of the sites and profiles I choose, but I've certainly turned tail and run for the shallows once!
There is no problem whatsoever with dissimilar tanks. When I take new divers out, I generally do it on doubled LP85s, and I'm certainly NOT going to lend them those! You did something similar by taking another buddy -- ensured your own redundancy, even though you had a pony as well. I find three man teams IDEAL for taking out new divers, because you can sandwich the new diver between the two experienced people, and that discourages them from darting away, and increases the amount of supervision they get.
People have already gone over the turn pressure, which wasn't really conservative enough, as you guys learned the hard way. Again, kudos to your buddy, who had the diving skills to accomplish an air-share, and kudos to the new diver, who appears to have done very well with that! It does sound as though you guys may have put him back on his own gas supply a bit early, and my only question is whether you shallowed up the dive when you realized how fast the new diver had gone through his air? That's something I do with new folks, if they are really hoovering -- I get them shallow, so that the gas lasts longer, and so that if there is any problem, the surface is a lot closer.
You've gotten a lot of flack here, but frankly, people's gas consumption is NOT a constant. It's quite possible that your new diver either got tired, got cold, or got nervous about his gas supply (or nervous about anything) and simply increased his consumption on the second half of the dive. Frequent checks, after he reached his turn pressure earlier than you expected, might have caught the situation sooner, but I'll confess to not having monitored newbies as closely as I should have, and getting unpleasant surprises. I haven't had to put anybody on my gas, mostly because of the sites and profiles I choose, but I've certainly turned tail and run for the shallows once!
Nautica2706
Registered
I am a rookie and not even rookie of the year at that... (still trying to get buoyancy right, trim, air consumption etc).
I maybe wrong and is open to suggestions.
Here's what me and my buddy (gf) usually do.
For point A to point B dive profile, what we usually do was to descend to our planned depth with a little time as safely as possible (buddy checking all the way down our initial descend), say to 17m-23m depth. I am still OW so 23m is always my max depth, GF is AOW and has a bit more dives than me. We always stay close and signal each other if one of us is at half tank (100bar). Half tank is our limit before we start our gradual ascend. Half tank usually hit me at 20 or so minutes. Doing a gradual ascend prolonged my dives up to 50 or so minutes. Another signal is for 70 bar which means to get ready for a safety stop. signal at 50 bar to let each other know that we're doing a safety stop. When doing the stop, we asses the conditions above us (waves, boats, etc) and plan our surfacing point accordingly. Then we surface...together. Signal the boat and wait to be picked up.
We rarely do Point A-B-A profile, but when it happened, what we usually do is against current 1st then with the current on the trip back (if current exist). Descend to planned depth in the same way as the paragraph above. Turn is at also at 100 bar but our gradual ascend is a bit less leasurely than paragraph above. the rest is the same with with the above. We usually ended up pretty close to where we started.
Also I might add...the buddy checking on initial descend saves us a couple of headaches already even in our baby divers era with few dives lol. We both gear up on the surface.
I maybe wrong and is open to suggestions.
Here's what me and my buddy (gf) usually do.
For point A to point B dive profile, what we usually do was to descend to our planned depth with a little time as safely as possible (buddy checking all the way down our initial descend), say to 17m-23m depth. I am still OW so 23m is always my max depth, GF is AOW and has a bit more dives than me. We always stay close and signal each other if one of us is at half tank (100bar). Half tank is our limit before we start our gradual ascend. Half tank usually hit me at 20 or so minutes. Doing a gradual ascend prolonged my dives up to 50 or so minutes. Another signal is for 70 bar which means to get ready for a safety stop. signal at 50 bar to let each other know that we're doing a safety stop. When doing the stop, we asses the conditions above us (waves, boats, etc) and plan our surfacing point accordingly. Then we surface...together. Signal the boat and wait to be picked up.
We rarely do Point A-B-A profile, but when it happened, what we usually do is against current 1st then with the current on the trip back (if current exist). Descend to planned depth in the same way as the paragraph above. Turn is at also at 100 bar but our gradual ascend is a bit less leasurely than paragraph above. the rest is the same with with the above. We usually ended up pretty close to where we started.
Also I might add...the buddy checking on initial descend saves us a couple of headaches already even in our baby divers era with few dives lol. We both gear up on the surface.
Well you have had lots of input. I'll take a turn.
The various sizes of tanks is irrelevant. You go by the lowest pressure. You were not responsible for watching this guy's pressure, but it is good to help prompt a new diver if they are not checking it often enough.
I would have discussed breathing with a new diver. Too many times, I see that 25 minute dive. They are taught to take full even breaths. They SHould be taught to breath normally as they would while just standing around. Then they aren't bogarting their tank. Their buoyancy will be better by doing that too. My students have 50 to 60 minute dives and return with a minimum of 50 bar or 750psi. Easy normal breathing is not rocket science, but too many new divers are misinformed about breathing patterns.
Don't plan to share air. Plan to be able to cut the dive short, if need be, but don't plan to share to extend the dive. That is an emergency, and you should try to avoid those.
Most of your job as a buddy to a new diver is to model good dive planning and execution. You are trying to do that, and that is a good thing. Now take the critiques and advice, change what needs to be changed and help your friend get the experience he needs.
And you swim into the current on the current on the way out, and the return is less stressful and uses less air because you are getting help form the current on the way back.
Work with the new guy on easy breathing, lazy diving, and relaxing in the water. His air time will extend very quickly. Good luck.
The various sizes of tanks is irrelevant. You go by the lowest pressure. You were not responsible for watching this guy's pressure, but it is good to help prompt a new diver if they are not checking it often enough.
I would have discussed breathing with a new diver. Too many times, I see that 25 minute dive. They are taught to take full even breaths. They SHould be taught to breath normally as they would while just standing around. Then they aren't bogarting their tank. Their buoyancy will be better by doing that too. My students have 50 to 60 minute dives and return with a minimum of 50 bar or 750psi. Easy normal breathing is not rocket science, but too many new divers are misinformed about breathing patterns.
Don't plan to share air. Plan to be able to cut the dive short, if need be, but don't plan to share to extend the dive. That is an emergency, and you should try to avoid those.
Most of your job as a buddy to a new diver is to model good dive planning and execution. You are trying to do that, and that is a good thing. Now take the critiques and advice, change what needs to be changed and help your friend get the experience he needs.
And you swim into the current on the current on the way out, and the return is less stressful and uses less air because you are getting help form the current on the way back.
Work with the new guy on easy breathing, lazy diving, and relaxing in the water. His air time will extend very quickly. Good luck.
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