Low Profile Reg's

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OK all,
After much thought and consideration, I finally bought the Poseidon Xstream Deep from my LDS. I've been putting in some time helping out there on my days off and getting input on the reg. My LDS is a qualified Poseidon rep. The owner actually dives w/ the Xstream Duration.

Thanks for all the input
Jt
 
Hose lenght and mouthpiece design are much larger factors in jaw fatigue. A hose a few inches too long or too short will push or pull the second sage throughout the dive with a lot more force than a large "heavy" second stage. Similarly, a poorly designed mouthpiece requires you to actually clamp down on the mouthpiece to hold the reg in your mouth regardless of what it weighs.

So, what is the recommended hose lenght and mouthpiece design? Any examples?
 
The original intent of this thread was to querry about some reg's I am looking at. I'm glad that you all are discussing the pro's and con's of light weight, low profile regs. DA Aquamaster, you stated "The "lightweight, low profile regs prevent law fatigue" concept is the biggest lie in dive equipment marketing and was basically invented to convince us that moving to lighter plastic second stages was a good thing - it wasn't." I don't necessarily agree... I am a person who needs a light weight reg due to prior TMJ, so I appreciate your input, however in my case you are incorrect. My doctor actually wanted me to get a full face mask similar to Interspiro's. We came to a compromise if I could find a light enough reg (in and out of the water). BTW I love my low volume mask.
A lighter second stage sounds logical and on the surface the argument even makes some sense. The appearace of truth is what makes popular misconceptions so attractive to anyone who does not take the time to explore the argument in depth and apply some critical thinking skills.

The apparent logic on the surface is however very seductive and I can understand your Dr. taking that line of reasoning and recommending a smaller second stage that would be "lighter".

The problem with him doing that is that regulators are not like cell phones where smaller usually equals lighter. With a second stage that is not usually the case underwater where a larger second stage usually offers more bouyancy to offset the higher weight and actually weigh less when submerged than a smaller second stage.

And again, the biggest force acting on your second stage when underwater is most likely going to be the hose if the lenght is not perfect. The push/pull foirce imparted by the hose is far greater than the weight of the reg in the water.

The irony here is that you bought a Poseidon Xstream Deep. That particular reg is reported by Poseiden to be designed with minimal internal volume to reduce deadspace and reduce carbon dioxide retention (which I think is also largely BS as the percentage decrease is minimal when comapared to the dead space in a diver's mouth and throat, but markering types are seldom prone to stating facts that dispute their claims). What is pretty certain is that less internal voume means less bouyancy with the result that you have a reg that is not very bouyant for it's size and it is going to be heavier in the water than a large, and largely plastic, second stage such as a G250HP.

The further irony is that poseiden hoses are expensive and the selection of lenghts is limited compared to more common hose designs. The OPV fitting on the hose itself is also both large and comparatively heavy.

I am not totally sure how the Extreme compares with the Jet Stream, but the Jet Stream also had a larger than average mouthpiece which adds an additional negative in terms of TMJ and also limits mouthpiece selection. That would be a third strike, if the extreme uses the same oversized mouthpiece design.

Personally, I like to take what my doctor says with a grain of salt and focus on his intent rather than to take his advice verbatim and consequently rely on him not only being an excellent doctor but also knowing the intimate details and implications of my various hobbies and equipment choices. Having a Dr. does not absolve you of some responsibility in interpreting and properly applying what is said to your specific case.

Same thing goes with an LDS owner. I have to say the reg you got is among the last I would have chosen for a customer with TMJ for all of the reasons listed above. Of course being a posieden dealer probably biased him somewhat.
 
For whatever it is worth, I have Poseidon's as my tech regs...Extreme Deep 90 with a 7 foot hose as my primary and a Jetstream/Odin as the second set. I certainly didn't buy them because of profile, but because I have been diving Poseidon's for better than 20 years and never had one go south on me. I guess I never considered mouthpiece size as a purchasing decision point as that is a cheap and quick change, but then I don't have to deal with TMJ so probably is an unqualified remark for me to make. Yes, parts and service are certainly not as easily (or cheaply for that matter) found as other brands...but again, that was not a primary driving reason for me to either purchase or not purchase.

My decision was based on demonstrated reliability (first criteria), that they can be used in warm or extremely cold water, and their performance in delivering gas at depth. I am sure there are other brands that do as well and maybe to some extent even better and I have owned and dove ScubaPro, Aqualung, Apeks, Sherwood, Mares and others. But for deeper diving I simply believe for me Poseidon was the way to go. My "going on a liveaboard" set is a yoke Aqualung Legend ACR as they don't have DIN tanks on liveaboards, and I like to do a liveaboard once in a blue moon (Turk/Caicos here I come in July!). Yep...I have the DIN to yoke adaptors, but don't really like using them. Besides...doing liveaboard diving you aren't going to be going all that deep anyway. If others have different opinions...well it is a free economy and a free country...buy and dive what you want.

I do agree with Aquamaster about marketing ploys...the idea that a small residual volume inside a smaller 2nd stage would be a driver in reduction of CO2, while true in the sense of pure physics, probably is a long reach when reduction of CO2 build up is more about proper breathing. But folks, it's marketing...if you can make a claim that is true (irregardless of whether it really makes a true difference) then usually you will find it is made.

Having the internet and a forum like this is a wonderful thing...as it gives you the ability to at least hear what others have to say and think and use that as information to make an evaluation. Equipment selection is a personal decision we all must make, and certainly input from other users, positive and negative is always something to look at in making that evaluation, but in the end it is your pocket that the money is coming out of...thus your decision. In the end, as long as you are happy with what you bought and it is reliable and safe...then worrying about what someone else is diving or thinks seems like a waste of time to me.

Hopefully your choice will work out for you...enjoy diving!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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