Mares horizon: just add water?

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Hard to tell, I couldn't find the manual online. I'm assuming that if it isn't a simple timer, it's something similar to the rEvo rMS system (same parent company), which estimates remaining scrubber time. I'm not sure exactly how it works, presumably one of the rEvo divers will chime in. Apparently it takes into account breathing rate, depth, water temperature and personal factors...

rMS is simpler than that. Which, apparently, also makes it more robust. @Dr Simon Mitchell has posted somewhat recently to say that he was part of some recent research that concluded, in part, that the rEvo rMS is fairly good at serving its intended purpose. (I hope I have not misspoken too badly in my "summary") The system does not monitor breathing rate or other personal factors. But, it does accommodate them by virtue of adapting to different rates of consumption of the sorb. I.e. if you are working hard, you'll probably be breathing faster and producing more CO2. rMS doesn't know you're working hard or breathing faster. But, it will know that you are burning through your sorb faster and reflect that in the "remaining time" that is displayed on the controller.

A rEvo has 2 scrubber baskets. If it has rMS then each basket has a temperature probe in it. The probe goes right through the center of the basket and is aligned with the direction of gas flow.

I.e. when the diver is in normal horizontal trim, the probes are oriented vertically. Gas flows from the exhale counterlung underneath basket 1 (closer to the diver's head), up through it, across into the top of basket 2, and down into the inhale counterlung.

Each probe has 4 or 5 arms (I can't remember and too lazy to go down and look) sticking out at 90 degrees, at different heights. This allows the controller to measure the temperature inside the scrubber basket at different heights within the basket.

The sorb does most of its work when the gas first hits it. It gets warm as it works. So, at the start of a dive with all new sorb, the bottom of basket 1 will get warm, because that is where the "reaction front" is (where the majority of CO2 is being scrubbed out of the breathing gas). As the dive progresses, the sorb at the bottom of basket 1 will be "used up" and the reaction front will get higher and higher in basket 1 until eventually CO2 will be getting through basket 1 unscrubbed. Then, the top of basket 2 will start to scrub out CO2 and the reaction front will start to progress from the top of basket 2 towards the bottom of basket 2.

The rMS temperature probes allow the controller to tell where, in the scrubber baskets, the reaction front is. That is the basic information that it uses to estimate how much longer the sorb will last. I believe there is more to it (e.g. ambient pressure, ambient temperature, etc. - not really sure what all is factored into the calculation), but in practical terms for the diver, that is all that I think one really needs to know.

Sofnolime 797 doesn't contain indicator dyes.

I thought it was available in both indicating and non-indicating form. It's just that nobody really cares, for CCR use, so suppliers to the dive industry generally only carry non-indicating. No CCR diver (in their right mind) is going to use sorb color as part of any decision on re-packing their scrubber or not.
 
rMS is simpler than that. Which, apparently, also makes it more robust. The system does not monitor breathing rate or other personal factors. But, it does accommodate them by virtue of adapting to different rates of consumption of the sorb. I.e. if you are working hard, you'll probably be breathing faster and producing more CO2. rMS doesn't know you're working hard or breathing faster. But, it will know that you are burning through your sorb faster and reflect that in the "remaining time" that is displayed on the controller.

A rEvo has 2 scrubber baskets. If it has rMS then each basket has a temperature probe in it. The probe goes right through the center of the basket and is aligned with the direction of gas flow.

OK, I'm confused. I guess it doesn't matter since I don't dive a rEvo, but this seems to be from a UK rEvo distributor:

"rMS, What does it do?

The rMS is really unbelievable, it is not a temp stick or anything like a temp stick. It is real time calculation on the performance of the scrubbers. It gives you a prediction on the longevity of both scrubbers. The display states how many minutes that remain before you need to cycle the scrubbers (repack the top scrubber and place it in the bottom scrubber housing and move the bottom scrubber to the top housing) and how many minutes remain before you need to repack them both.

The calculation is based on data and several other factors.

Your breathing rate. The harder you breathe the more carbon dioxide you produce. The more carbon dioxide that you produce the faster the scrubber is expired. This information is collected as the position within the scrubber that the reaction is taking place is moving faster.

Your depth. The deeper that you are the more dense the gas is, the greater density of the gas means that the absorbent material is used a higher rate.

The water temperature. Water temperature has an effect on scrubber duration. In simple terms the colder the water the quicker the absorbent is exhausted.

It is personalised as well. One person can produce a higher amount of carbon dioxide than another and as a general rule men produce more than women. Also larger people produce more than slight people. The rMS takes this into consideration. You programme into the unit your gender and your weight and it uses those parameters for the prediction."
 
OK, I'm confused. I guess it doesn't matter since I don't dive a rEvo, but this seems to be from a UK rEvo distributor:

Dang it. I read that very page before I posted and I still failed to get it right.

I forgot that the rEvo controlller does have settings that you adjust to tell it your gender and weight. I did it once and promptly forgot about it. Right. So, it does account for "personal factors" in its calculation.

My bad. Thanks for posting that.
 
I did see it at Boot today, didn’t spend much time at it but it did look cheap and fragile. There where many people that did show intrest in the Horizon but i doubt we will see it a lot at the waterside.
 
So was the Explorer. Seeing the video on it got me started down the path to rebreathers. Luckily I went CCR instead!!
 
It does look to be more capable than the Explorer—longer scrubber duration with the ability to do decompression dives. As for flood tolerance, the counter lungs are a completely different design than the revo, as far as I know the lungs do allow de-watering. Having said all that I'll be surprised if its a commercial success… it's going to be expensive, probably appealing to wealthier recreational divers looking for a cool toy (and it does look like a pretty cool toy). I just wonder how big that market is, Mares is will have to sell lots of Horizons for a return on their investment.
 
All...

As has already been said...the Horizon looks slick...

I made an inquiry to OEO to have both counter-lungs replaced on a rEvo III Standard Manual...

Jason's web site shows the counter-lungs as being $115... each...only you can't buy them...

To have the unit shipped to OEO...re and re the counter-lungs...installation kits/shop supplies/8 hours labour at over $100 per...return shipping...

Counter-lung replacement was going to cost me $1800..CDN...the rEvo counter-lungs are little more than heavy duty freezer bags

Who is going to provide support for the Horizon...OEO has all rEvo service locked up tight for Canada and the US...

The attached serves me perfectly...40 m...30 min BT...not CCR...but flawless for my needs...

Hovering over the ''windlass'' on the Arabia...

Best...Warren


Screenshot (16).png
 
Jason's web site shows the counter-lungs as being $115... each...only you can't buy them...

To have the unit shipped to OEO...re and re the counter-lungs...installation kits/shop supplies/8 hours labour at over $100 per...return shipping...

Wow!

8 hours to R&R the CLs?!? Holy smokes! That doesn't include any other work? JUST opening the box, swapping the CLs, and putting the box back together??

Their website says $65/hour for labor. (maybe that's USD vs CDN?) Even so, between the labor and the cost of the parts, that is nuts!

AddHelium services rEvos. Not that I'm recommending them. It's just an observation. Did you check with them about either selling you CLs or doing the work for you? Peter (at AddHelium) quoted me around $600 for a 5-year service. I don't know, but I would have thought if they can do the 5-year service for that, they could replace the CLs while working on it, for just the cost of the parts. But, maybe the 5-year service is not nearly as in-depth as I thought....?
 

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