andy has covered this very well , take heed to great advice, dont let losers like those others get you into trouble, plan your dive and dive your plan,and COMFORT LEVEL!!!H2Andy:
Max depth for new divers
- Thread starter zinnia7
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Diver Dennis
Contributor
The other important point here is to make sure you ask before you go out. Don't be afraid to tell them what depths you are comfortable at. If they give you some type of attitude, which is unlikely, try another shop.
When you sign up for the dives, ask about their destinations and tell them the sort of diving you want to do for the money you're paying them. If they try to stay too ambiguous or don't offer the sorts of destinations you want, move on to the next dive operator. Consider it part of the vacation planning - you're selecting a destination for a reason, wall diving, reef diving, sea turtles, etc, so start your dive plan from your home telephone. Even if the trip is arranged by your LDS or a travel agent, learn the particulars early on - it's easier to negotiate and change things, or if everything's set in stone you may decide to go on a completely different trip.zinnia7:
It's all the more important at 1 dive trip a year - it's an awful lot of money to spend flying and hotelling to not get to do exactly what you want with your money. Comfort level notwithstanding, for me it's what do I get to see balanced against bottom time - I'd rather spend 75 minutes at 20 feet than 10 minutes at 90 feet unless what's at 90 feet is really compelling, especially if 6-8 tanks has to last me a whole year :11:.
What H2Andy said and Jim reiterated is true - it's a recommendation. It's more illustrative to tell a student that's learning 74 other things at the same time 'you can go to this point on your depth gauge' than a fuzzy 'dive to your comfort level'. Wull how deep is that? Uh, you know, until you're not comfortable any more.
What many others are saying is true, don't do a dive that you're not comfortable doing (and do have the courage and conviction to do that when necessary), but you can minimize those situations by nailing down as much as you can before you give them your credit card number. I think you'll find that most operators will do what they can to make you happy, but that's harder to do once a group is heading out of a marina.
Oh sure, Diver Dennis says in 2 sentences what it's taken me so long to type. Well, I've got too much time invested in this, so I'm posting it anyway!
Why have the guidelines? Probably 2 big reasons, safety and money.
Safety? There is no question that as you go deeper the risk goes up. You are farther from air, perhaps have little or no light in some cases. You are also becoming mentally impaired and at some point will cross over into narcosis. With stuff like that going on it can make sense to logg a few dives and to perhaps be exposed to the depths under controlled conditions the first time or 2 down there.
Money? You could take a full semester or year long dive class like some college programs offer and have this all rolled into one massive learning experience. The problem is that this is too daunting for many prosective divers so the course has been pared down to just enough to get you diving. The ommited training is sold as AOW and other specialties. It's all about getting people into diving and continuing education.
Why is it ignored?
In some cases I am sure that ignorance is bliss and divers don't appreciate what may happen. Some divers are more naturally comfortable and are inherent risk takers. Some of these divers are always on guided dives and make the assumption that there is safety in numbers and in having an experienced DM or guide.
As for the operators, again it's all about $$. They feel that with a signed waiver and a willing diver under guided conditions the whole thing is an acceptable risk to book a seat on the boat.
At the end of the day it is a self regulated industry that we enjoy on an international basis no less. Do you need an AOW card to dive to the deeper recreational depths? Certainly not, self study, good mentors and dumb luck are all common options.
Pete
Safety? There is no question that as you go deeper the risk goes up. You are farther from air, perhaps have little or no light in some cases. You are also becoming mentally impaired and at some point will cross over into narcosis. With stuff like that going on it can make sense to logg a few dives and to perhaps be exposed to the depths under controlled conditions the first time or 2 down there.
Money? You could take a full semester or year long dive class like some college programs offer and have this all rolled into one massive learning experience. The problem is that this is too daunting for many prosective divers so the course has been pared down to just enough to get you diving. The ommited training is sold as AOW and other specialties. It's all about getting people into diving and continuing education.
Why is it ignored?
In some cases I am sure that ignorance is bliss and divers don't appreciate what may happen. Some divers are more naturally comfortable and are inherent risk takers. Some of these divers are always on guided dives and make the assumption that there is safety in numbers and in having an experienced DM or guide.
As for the operators, again it's all about $$. They feel that with a signed waiver and a willing diver under guided conditions the whole thing is an acceptable risk to book a seat on the boat.
At the end of the day it is a self regulated industry that we enjoy on an international basis no less. Do you need an AOW card to dive to the deeper recreational depths? Certainly not, self study, good mentors and dumb luck are all common options.
Pete
pete340
Contributor
zinnia7:
There is more to it. That's why you should do the deep dive in AOW. The deeper you go, the thinner your safety margins become. And you really don't want to be exposed to nitrogen narcosis for the first time without someone else there who is watching for extreme reactions.
ScubaKimmie:
Not quite. First of all "legal" isn't an issue when it comes to a self regulated activity like ours. There are no laws that pertain to recreational divers.
Dive leaders could be a Assistant Instructor, Divemaster or Instructor. AI's and DM's have no business taking any diver beyond the limits of their training, which for a new diver the recommendation is 60 feet.
An Instructor who wish's to take a diver deeper than they have been trained better be well aware they have now assumed the Instructor role and conduct themself accordingly. That means a course with all the paperwork etc associated.
Does this happen all the time? Absolutly!
In the event of an accident will the lawyers start throwing these Dive Leaders under the bus? ABSOLUTLY!
Your second paragraph was a good recommendation but if they reply, It's OK we do it all the time just follow your Divemaster then don't dive with them! They are asking you to conduct a "trust me" dive and that has killed many many divers.
Best,
Chris
It would be more accurate to say safety stops are required.zinnia7:
You love to play word games don't you. That's great, should keep you warm at night.cerich:
Legal as in within standards of the RSTC which most professionals are familiar with.
OP
zinnia7
Registered
Thanks to most of you for backing my opinion that people should not venture deeper without proper training. There are so many things to learn and so many more variables to deal with at greater depths. I will stick with my shallow dives and not do more until I have had more training.
I just hope the folks at Anthony's Key can understand this. I did send them an e-mail and asked if they used different boats for different skill levels and depths. They basically said no. So I will definitely check out the first dive of the morning and see where it is going and how deep. That one should be the deepest of the day and I can always skip it and do the late morning and afternoon ones instead.
Thanks again to all!
I just hope the folks at Anthony's Key can understand this. I did send them an e-mail and asked if they used different boats for different skill levels and depths. They basically said no. So I will definitely check out the first dive of the morning and see where it is going and how deep. That one should be the deepest of the day and I can always skip it and do the late morning and afternoon ones instead.
Thanks again to all!
Zinna at Anthonys Key there are a couple of deep dives, both wrecks. Avoid those.
On all the other dives you can just hang up higher on the wall with your buddy if you like. Most dives can be above 60 feet if you really wanted and they usually return over the top of the reef along the coral.
One of the dive leaders we went with usually stayed close to 60 feet but many divers following him dropped much lower, I was one of thsoe cause, there is stuff to see down there
On all the other dives you can just hang up higher on the wall with your buddy if you like. Most dives can be above 60 feet if you really wanted and they usually return over the top of the reef along the coral.
One of the dive leaders we went with usually stayed close to 60 feet but many divers following him dropped much lower, I was one of thsoe cause, there is stuff to see down there
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