Meg Scrubber Question

[grouchyturtle]

I remember seeing somewhere on this board that some Meg users are using Cis Lunar scrubbers in there rigs.

Why?

I know that Cis Luner is one of the biggest baddest CCRs ever made, but are the advantages to this scrubber over the one that comes with the Meg?

Is this an option when you order you unit or is it an upgrade that has to be done afterwards?

Whats the cost?

Isn't it a PITA to get one of the scrubbers since the company is no longer around?

I plan on making the move hopefully within the year, and have decided on the Meg, now I'm trying to figure out what options I want.

 

[Mverick]

I remember seeing somewhere on this board that some Meg users are using Cis Lunar scrubbers in there rigs.

Why?

I know that Cis Luner is one of the biggest baddest CCRs ever made, but are the advantages to this scrubber over the one that comes with the Meg?

Is this an option when you order you unit or is it an upgrade that has to be done afterwards?

Whats the cost?

Isn't it a PITA to get one of the scrubbers since the company is no longer around?

I plan on making the move hopefully within the year, and have decided on the Meg, now I'm trying to figure out what options I want.

Meg comes with standard scrubber. Around 5lbs

You can BUY a CIS scrubber to install. Cost on one is around $2500. Depending who is selling it. It has Hydrophobic membrane around scrubber. Which allows air through but not water. So if water got into the scrubber. It can't get to the Sorb. But, it increases work of breathing. It also holds more Sorb. For longer dives. And is a Radial design.

Meg is coming out with there own 9lb Radial sorb scrubber. Price was Supposed to be around $1200. But who knows. Don't know if it will have hydrophobic membrane. They supposedly bought the rights to the CIS scrubber.

I like the Meg. Nice unit. I want th 9lb scrubber. When it comes out. I wouldn't pay for the original CIS scrubber. Flooding the scrubber that bad. Probably is a bad hose. So being able to recover it isn't going to happen. But, if ya want it. You can buy one. Finding one is difficult though.

 

[caveseeker7]

Meg comes with standard scrubber. Around 5lbs

You can BUY a CIS scrubber to install. Cost on one is around $2500. Depending who is selling it. It has Hydrophobic membrane around scrubber. Which allows air through but not water. So if water got into the scrubber. It can't get to the Sorb. But, it increases work of breathing. It also holds more Sorb. For longer dives. And is a Radial design.

The standard axial Meg scrubber has 5.4 lbs capacity. It's rated at 3 hrs these days.
There are several inches of space below the scrubber at the bottom of the canister to make it water tolerant.

The Cis scrubber takes up that additional space (it's longer) as the hydrophobic membrane is water proof. But due to the membranes on the inside and outside there is actually less space inside, about 5 lbs. The Cis duration was estimated by the factory at 4 hrs at an O2 consumption of 1 lpm and at 2.7 hrs at an O2 consumption of 1.5 lpm, both for Sofnolime.

The legendary super long cave dives were all performed with scooters, so breathing rates were probably fairly low, something most people don't consider. Same with the RB80.

Juergensen Marine has the service contract for Cis-Lunar and sold the remaining cannisters to Meg users. Afaik none are left over, though sometimes a used one pops up here and there. Usually in the neighborhood of $2K - $2.5K.

 

[Ryvor]

I remember seeing somewhere on this board that some Meg users are using Cis Lunar scrubbers in there rigs.

Why?

I know that Cis Luner is one of the biggest baddest CCRs ever made, but are the advantages to this scrubber over the one that comes with the Meg?

Is this an option when you order you unit or is it an upgrade that has to be done afterwards?

Whats the cost?

Isn't it a PITA to get one of the scrubbers since the company is no longer around?

I plan on making the move hopefully within the year, and have decided on the Meg, now I'm trying to figure out what options I want.

In a years time you'll have a brand new Meg with all the options available that you could or would want. APECS 3 handsets with full deco comp and a version of the CIS canister will also be available sometime next year. So you can go with the standard canister or the new version of the CIS canister produced by Innerspace. As soon as the APECS 3 is available I'm sending my lid and handsets back to be upgraded to the APECS 3.

The complete Meg is about $7500. After you add all the normal options you'll be at around $8500. If you buy next year and add the APECS 3 plan on adding around another $2000 to that. The price hasn't been set yet but I don't think it'll be more than that from what I've gather from talking to Leon. Then add another $1500 or so for the training. Not sure on the CIS like canister price.

 

[grouchyturtle]

Isn't the Hammerhead full deco too? Why not Hammerhead then?

I was thinking Meg w/Hammerhead, maybe the new scrubber if/when available, & HUD.

Also, does the Meg come ready to dive? Other than a BP/wing what do I need to supply? Tanks? 1st stages?

 

[Mverick]

Isn't the Hammerhead full deco too? Why not Hammerhead then?

I was thinking Meg w/Hammerhead, maybe the new scrubber if/when available, & HUD.

Also, does the Meg come ready to dive? Other than a BP/wing what do I need to supply? Tanks? 1st stages?

As of right now. You can only get the Meg with Apecs handsets and hud. They offered the Hammerhead for a while. And also the Shearwater for a while. But, they will be coming out with the Apecs 3 next year. So, it will have that option.

You can get it ready to dive with tanks and first stages. I think you need to get a wing and bp.

Call Leon, he'll tell you more then we can. He builds them. And, he doesn't have a problem talking to people.

 

[caveseeker7]

Isn't the Hammerhead full deco too? Why not Hammerhead then?

The Hammerhead has indeed full deco, but the only OEM installation available is in the Dive Rite O2ptima.

The Meg originally had Juergensen/Smithers electronics with nitrox/trimix deco
capability. Due to Will Smithers untimely death they couldn't be used anymore.
Along came the APECS without deco.
Then the Hammerhead was briefly installed (as an option I believe) but due to the
contract with Dive Rite became unavailable on the Megalodon.
Back to the non-deco APECS electronics.
Then the Shearwater came along, also with He deco capability. They sold quite well,
but Innerspace decided to bring their own electronics to the market once they started
to discuss the rights to manufacture the Cis-Lunar canisters.

The APECS 3 deco electronics are supposed to be based on the Cis' to some extend. How much I don't know as the Cis had a rather elaborate electronic setup:
Three setpoint controllers, dual displays, tertiary HUD for Deco, system Operation and Setpoint warnings and to top it all of a fourth display for the buddy.
All that was powered five batteries in separate sealed compartments, had dual depth
sensors and chances are I still forgot something.

The deco algorithm was based on DCAP, I would hope the Meg's uses something more
up to date.

I was thinking Meg w/Hammerhead, maybe the new scrubber if/when available, & HUD.

All Hammerheads have the HUD and DIVA standard.
The HUD was also standard on the Shearwater replacing the secondary pO2 gauge.

Also, does the Meg come ready to dive? Other than a BP/wing what do I need to supply? Tanks? 1st stages?

ADV and HUD are options, a second manual diluent addition valve seems a popular option.
You can get tanks and BP/W through ISC if you want.

Have a look at Stuart Ford's article on Rebreather World, he and his fiance went to
Washington to pick up and train on their Megs (with Leon). Stuart's alu travel bp was
even anodized in the same color as his unit.

Also, I have called ISC and spoken to Leon, he's indeed available to answer questions.
Likely the best answers you'll get.

 

[silent running]

I remember seeing somewhere on this board that some Meg users are using Cis Lunar scrubbers in there rigs.

Why?

I know that Cis Luner is one of the biggest baddest CCRs ever made, but are the advantages to this scrubber over the one that comes with the Meg?

/QUOTE]
Hello grunzster, the only reason I can see to use the CIS scrubber is to use Lithium Hydroxide. But you can't fly with it and due to the hydrophobic membrane, the WOB is supposedly significantly higher. Unless somebody solves the WOB problem, I don't see the point. I mean really, how many of us will really want to do 18hr dives? IMHO low WOB trumps all other scrubber variables. You can always plan around the limits of a unit's scrubber duration by bringing along another unit. Unforseen high workloads which could produce a CO2 hit are not so easy to avoid.-Andy

 

[Mr.X]

The Cis Lunar scrubber WOB was not significantly higher than other axial, or radial scrubbers when I took it for a spin. However, this is purely anecdotal on my part. It's darn expensive too. Oh, forgot to mention that I tried a Cis scrubber in a Meg too. Not bad.

 

[silent running]

The Cis Lunar scrubber WOB was not significantly higher than other axial, or radial scrubbers when I took it for a spin. However, this is purely anecdotal on my part. It's darn expensive too. Oh, forgot to mention that I tried a Cis scrubber in a Meg too. Not bad.

Hello Mr.X, this the first time I've heard anyone other than my RB designer friend compare the CIS scrubber WOB to anything else. But I'm assuming that you did notice some difference from another non hydrophobic membrane radial scrubber. If so, how much? I'm guessing these comparisons were done in the Meg. If that's the case, I'm also curious did you notice a difference WOB wise between the axial and radial scrubbers?-Andy