• Welcome to ScubaBoard

  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Minimum Training Standards for All Public Safety Divers?

Discussion in 'Ideas and Stories' started by scubadiver214, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. Gary D.

    Gary D. ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Post Falls, Idaho
    Well put SB.

    I didn't mean for anyone to ever forget his or her training that would be foolish. I'm just a firm believer of not changing styles of diving.

    Lets compare PSD to DM as an example. With DM it’s basically take your time guiding someone through the proper steps and has the patience of a saint. Your making sure the people you are charged with get it right, check each other out, have a proper plan and stick to it. Now comparing it to PSD just throw out everything I just said.

    My thoughts are geared more towards Rescue modes. There is no time to think about what you are doing, it’s just second nature and has to be right 100% of the time. While your getting suited up your either going through a briefing or doing an interview if your first on scene.

    I’m just not a big fan of diving one style one day and another style the next day. Lots of people have trouble multi tasking and this is multi tasking to the max.

    Gary D.
  2. Snowbear

    Snowbear NOK ScubaBoard Supporter

    I guess I compare it to being a firefighter and a paramedic. If the call is medical, I'm in medic mode. If the call is fire, I'm in firefighter mode.
    Same with diving. I use completely different gear (even a different drysuit) and completely different procedures. So far anyway, there is no confusion as to which role I'm playing that day.
  3. bridgediver

    bridgediver Instructor, Scuba

    I think were on the same page, snowbear. This is the exact approach I take.
    I wasn't saying that having a buddy in the water is better for PSD but it is better for normal exploration diving (ie wreck, reef etc) - probably wouldn't be doing this kind of diving in blackwater anyway, right?
    I've had many discussions with many different people about the merits of one system to the other (LGS/DIR). I'd love to find a way to blend the 2 styles together but I don't think it can be done either. They are 2 different tools for 2 different jobs.

    Gary, I understand the dangers of task loading and if the diver's experience is limited then this could be a real problem. I guess what I should've said is that as long as the diver has trained himself to max proficiency in ALL the diving styles he performs then changing from one day to the next shouldn't be a problem. Would you agree with that?

  4. BigJetDriver

    BigJetDriver Great White Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter


    I thought that I might have to respectfully but strongly disagree with you, but thanks to your explanation, I can see more of what your thought process is, and what your starting point is.

    There are specific modes, if you will, for doing specific jobs. The black-water role is best served by a diver on a tether, as a solo diver, with a diver on stand-by in full gear ready to go down the tether to assist if necessary. As Snowbear points out, gauges cannot be seen, so it is the tender's responsibility to control the dive.

    As you point out, in the Rescue mode, priorities are diffferently arranged, based on the situation at hand. By your own admission, you are switching between two different syles of diving. You are, of necessity, MULTI-TASKING.

    Your analogy of the Divemaster (Divecon, etc.) is faulty in this respect. In a critical situation, especially in the Rescue mode, where time-pressure is excessive, and the situation is unclear, it is absolutely IMPERATIVE, for your safety and that of others, that you have as you say: "the patience of a Saint", and, further, the capability taught in most Divemaster courses to mentally step back and keep an overview of the WHOLE SCENE. Only then, can you make the right, safe decisions. To do otherwise is to charge into a situation that may, in the end, add you to the casualty list!

    Advanced training, whether it be Divemaster, Instructor, Tech, Ice, Cave, Wreck, etc. from ANY of the agencies, can only IMPROVE a diver's capability to operate in the water and deal lwith difficult situations.

    Most divers are capable of multi-tasking, otherwise they wouldn't be in the water in the situations we are speaking of. Snowbear is, and by your own words, so are you.

    Practice your craft, certainly, but be open-minded enough to embrace other modes of diving and training. One can learn much, by simply paying attention to what others have to say! Then you can pick and choose what works best for you!

    Cheers, amigo, and keep your head down out there! :cop_2:
  5. The Kraken

    The Kraken He Who Glows in the Dark Waters (ADVISOR) ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Roswell/Alpharetta, GA
    I think Snowbear has pretty much nailed it.
    The whole thing is about the ability to match a particular set of diving skills to a given scenario with specific parameters.

    Big Jet, I'm sure you have mutliple ratings in many types of aircraft. And in as much, I'm sure you have, more than once in your flying career, had to switch to a different set of flying skills on very, very short notice.

    It's all about focusing on the task at hand.

    Tooling about in a high performance biplane at lower than approved altitudes is one thing. Landing that huge behemoth in a sever cross wind is another . . .

    . . . and I must say, this is the most adult "discussion" I've read on the board in a long time.
  6. BigJetDriver

    BigJetDriver Great White Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter


    Well said! You are absolutely right! It is ALL about being able to focus on the task at hand, and use all of your training to get the job done properly!


    P.S.---Both types of flying are a lot of fun! :wink:
  7. Snowbear

    Snowbear NOK ScubaBoard Supporter

    It is refreshing, isn't it :D

    I do want to add... Despite disagreeing on the issues of different diving on different days, I have a tremendous amount of respect for GaryD and greatly value his opinions based on the experience of probably more PSD dives than I have total dives.
  8. The Kraken

    The Kraken He Who Glows in the Dark Waters (ADVISOR) ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Roswell/Alpharetta, GA
    One thing he can't stress greatly enough is the psychological aspect of PS diving. Working in those conditions is one thing, being "successful" and finding the target is another.

    I flew medevac for one tour. There is no preparation that can be given . . .
  9. BigJetDriver

    BigJetDriver Great White Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter

    I constantly stress to my PSD students the point that this is NOT fun diving. It is interesting, challenging, and demanding. The rewards come from inside yourself, when you realize that what you are doing helps other people in both direct and indirect ways, and from the feeling that you have done a tough job well.

    As you, Kracken, have pointed out, you can tell people what to expect, but nothing can TRULY prepare you for the reality!

  10. BenQ

    BenQ Angel Fish

    I am new to this forum so I am chiming in kind of late here.
    I work for a paid department in Washington State. We are a NFPA compliant department so for our dive program we follow the recomentations of NFPA 1006 Standards for Technical Rescue (section 13). This a newly added section. Check it out if you havn't already.

    We are also obliged to comply with WAC (Washington Administrative Code) 296-37 Standards for Commercial Diving. Washingtons version of OSHA 29 CFR 1910 Subpart T (1910.401 - 440).This is a contriversial topic because of the supposed exemption...........
    .................."this standard does not apply to any diving operation:

    performed solely for search, rescue, or related public safety
    purposes by or under the control of a government agency"

    WISHA Services Department of Labor and Industrias has published a "Regional Directive" (WRD 32.15) which pretty clearly states that the only time we are exempt form the 296-37 Standard is when we are actively performing SAR activities.

    "The exemption must be read in the context of the phrase "search and rescue."
    Employers who engage in activities beyond search and rescue - in other words
    after there is no longer hope for rescue - are covered by the standard. SAR
    does not include the recovery of bodies of victims, the search for bodies, the
    search for evidence, retrieval of bodies or evidence, or other sctivities that are
    not time-sensitive in nature".......

    At any rate, back to the National Standards question. If you are a paid department (at least in washington state) there are plenty of rules to abide by......
    I'm not sure if OSHA has made any similar clarification but it's probably not far off...?

    It is worth going over the OSHA standard.

    Out of time, gotta go....

    Take care

Share This Page