Moved Posts From A&I: Check Out Dives and Hairsplitting

[jwp8363]

They're not 'check out' dives either. These were Open Water training dives.

A 'check out' dive is sometimes required by operators for certified divers who are diving somewhere new, with different conditions from what they may have dived before or for divers without proof of experience for example a logbook.

We may be splitting hairs on wording here. I am a Dive Master Candidate and dive at Lake Rawlings frequently. They could technically be called training dives as ther ARE part of your training to be a open water certified diver. But you are not really "training" at this point as you have should have already been TRAINED on the skills in your confined water classes. So most people refer to the 4 dives as "check out" because the instructor is not training you at this point, he is just checking out the skills that you should have learned in your confined water class. He or she may have to give you further training in a certain skill if you cannot do the skill to standard, but you are just demonstrationg that you can do the skill without the instructor showing you how it is done. But "check out" dives are also refered to as dives done by a diver that comes to a new shop for training and we do not know the quality of their skills

 

[HIGHwing]

...But you are not really "training" at this point as you have should have already been TRAINED on the skills in your confined water classes. So most people refer to the 4 dives as "check out" because the instructor is not training you at this point, he is just checking out the skills that you should have learned in your confined water class.

Name the skill(s) taught in open water that is/are not taught in confined water.

 

[jwp8363]

Colliam7 wrote
This is incorrect (although in the particular instance, perhaps irrelevant due to a lack of a CA). From the PADI Instructor Manual, 2012: [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

In addition, the definition of "Direct Supervision" is to my mind, perhaps a little vague. It appears to be very clear that "direct supervision" does NOT mean being within arm's reach (or else how could you "directly supervise" 8 students at once!).

For what it is worth, due to our local conditions, I have a personal Open Water limit of 2 students at a time. This can make for some VERY long sessions!

Peter, what Colliam7 posted is SPOT ON correct. the instructor can provide indirect supervision IF a Certified DM or assistant instructor is leading the tour portion of dives 2, 3, or 4. But there was no CA that day, so the instructor had to have DIRECT supervision (meaning he or she has to be able to visualy see all the students). unfortunatly, this did not happen and resulted in this tragic accident.​

 

[jwp8363]

Name the skill(s) taught in open water that is/are not taught in confined water.

the skill that is taught in open water that is NOT taught in confined is the straight line surface swim with a compass for 50 yards, and the underwater nav with reciprocal using a compass. you also have to demonstrate that you can descend using both with visual and without visual reference and also descend to no greater than 40 ft using a descent line

 

[HIGHwing]

Three minute safety stop?

 

[jwp8363]

you are correct highwing. although I thought that I put that on there (I meant to...)

 

[HIGHwing]

Excellent. In review, we concluded instructors are in fact teaching [new skills] during Open Water Certification dives.

 

[jwp8363]

but then again.... we are taught in confined water how to hover, and isnt a safety stop just a demo of a hover at a specific depth? and the compass skills are usually taught on land and then demoed in the water. but that is kinda nit-picking. so i guess what i am getting at is that by the time we get into the water for our 4 check out dives, we are actually just demonstrating the skills, not actually being taught them. the instructor is not really showing you how to do the 3 min SS as much as telling you to show him that you can stop at a given depth for a specific amount of time.