My buddy claims he was not narced at 135' (45m)....

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The first time I descended past 80 ft, I ended up feeling the narc effect around 100 ft. It was quite noticeable. My dive buddy was waving his light in a circular motion to scan for the rest of our dive group. I remember thinking that his light was really pretty, so I followed his light beam whereever it went! I realized what was going, and ascended a few feet. Since then I have been past 140 ft on air, and have never felt that bad again.

Like everybody has already said, it will hit everybody at some point. It's just a matter of recognizing it!
 
I've been taking divers on "dry dives" inside a multi-man hyperbaric chamber for years and there is one constant that I can testify to: every single person who has gone on the ride has shown clinical signs of nitrogen narcosis by the time we hit 4 ata and signs are usually appearing by the time we reach 3 ata.

Last year we had a gal - an excellent diver and long-time instructor - who swore up and down that she didn't get narced anymore. The usual silliness about experience, practice, conditioning, yadda, yadda. Unfortunately for her, there were several cameras in the chamber that day to make a permanent record of her sobriety. She ended up stuffing a couple of balloons under her shirt at the bottom and gave us all a show as her enhanced attributes grew and grew and grew, almost all the way to the surface. She is a heck of an instructor: one practical demonstration that showed us first hand the effects of narcosis and Boyle's Law. It was awesome! :D

Everybody gets narced. Those who swear they don't just don't recognize it - a great demonstration of just how dangerous narcosis can be.

Narcosis_21.jpg

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Narced or not has nothing to do with what you feel. The Nitrogen Narcosis is a physical law which there is no way to escape any more than the effect alcohol has on your system. Divers claiming that they are not narced is also the same kind of people who would say "I only had two beer. I can drive".

The whole point with the deep dive training is to help divers understand just that: You are narced even if you don't feel it. During AOW courses I teach I always tell my student that the Deep Dive is not about determine if you are narced. It's about getting you to realise that you are. Knowing the signs and symtoms of nitrogen narcosis is important so you know that you are narced and can deal with that in a stressful situation...
I agree with you that narcois is something that happens to everyone and that deep diving training is designed to help divers recognize it. If you go to 150' on air and try to do anything significant, you will recognize the narcoisis (if you do not, deep diving is something you probably need to avoid) and more importantly you will recognize being narced to a far lesser degree at much shallower depths - even 60 ft.

It is interesting watching a cave diver with limited deep diving experience put in and remove a jump reel at 30' with reasonable speed and ease and then watching them struggle trying to do the same thing at 100'. Simple things like remembering which way did I wrap it around the mainline or which way do I want to go now that I placed it can be much harder problems at a bit more depth than you usually perform the task or solve the problem.

The reasons a diver with significantly more expereince, and more importantly more experience at depth will do it more efficently do not relate to a lessened degree of narcosis but rather a much higher degree of accomodation. For example the experienced diver may have put in reels hundreds of times and very likely has a very set way of doing it that they have in essence over learned (along with perfect buoyancy, and all the other basic skills that then help them reduce task loading at depth as they do not have to devote attention to them). In my case, I always start by placing the jump line over the top of the main line and wrapping under it. I then know that when I remove it that I need to lift the ball on the end of the line straight and push the reel back through the loop that forms under it instead of wondering which way is which. I need to do it that way as I recognize if I do not do it the same time every time I will not remember how I did this particular time at 100'. In addition, at 44, seeing which way a tiny piece of line wraps under or over anothertiny piece of line the smae color is not as easy as it was 10 years ago, so consitency also accomodates reduced near vision acuity in low light (and in really silty conditions.) I also previsualize what I need to do and break it down into simple terms and steps so that when ever possible, the major problem solving does not have to occur at depth.

But frankly people also vary. I think everyone's situaional awareness shrinks as the END gets deeper as does everyone's ability to problem solve and their overall cognitive resources diminish. Accommodation and over learning of tasks greatly helps as it lowers the burden placed on the limited higher level intellectual resources. However to be blunt, some divers start out with a lot less in the intellectual checking account than others. Consequently, the level where you start writing intellectual bad checks varies based on experience, prior learning and the demands of the dive, but also from diver to diver.

...It's easy to test though. Next time you're on 45 metres with him ask him how much air he's got and then ask him to divide this amount in half.
Messing with comunication about air status is a really bad idea. If I ask my buddy how much gas he has left I do not want to encounter the possible situation where a request for the information is confused with a test. There is too much potential that he will skip the initial request and go straight to the test - especially if he is narced.

It works just as well to show your buddy a certain number of fingers and ask him to show you two less fingers in return. If you arrange to repeat the test twice, each time you do it, you can use one hand the first time (say 4 fingers that he correctly returns with 2 fingers) then use both hands the second time (7 fingers), but bring the other hand up slowly and 3 ft away. If he is perceptually narrowed, he will quite possibly respond to the five fingers on the original hand with 3 fingers, ignoring the 2 you are holding up on your other hand.
 
I'd have to disagree with your comment that "The reasons a diver with significantly more expereince, and more importantly more experience at depth will do it more efficently do not relate to a lessened degree of narcosis but rather a much higher degree of accomodation" DA Aquamaster. Of course it is true to a degree, but based on my experience the degree of narcosis at comparable depths IS linked to a changing level of tolerance.

In nearly 50 years of diving, I've been very tolerant of narcosis and functioned with a reasonably clear mind at depths down to 200 ft. I have reasonably objective ways of judging that based on the results of my filming at such depths.

When I reduced the frequency of my diving (from 300-350 to 100 dives per year) and the max depths I dive to (from 200 to about 100 ft), there was a very pronounced difference in my perception of narcosis and the objective methods I judge it by. My camera work has been erratic at depths I formerly functioned at with no obvious effects.
 
I too will genreally feel no narcosis at depths aroun 130', but buddies that I dive and spear with are the exact opposite, getting narced soon as they break 120'. I guess it all just depends on who you are the situation you are diving.

CT
 
The real danger of narcosis is that it severely hinders our higher-order thinking and our ability to multitask.

He may not have "felt" anything and probably could have retrieved the reel with no problems... assuming nothing went wrong. But what if the line was slack and got tangled on something and then while he was dealing with it his buddy went out of gas. Would he have the mental acuity to either handle both situations or (better) choose which one was the more pressing of the two? Throw in another failure and you're asking for trouble.


I think that OW programs which teach that narcosis is a loopy feeling where fish will serenade you while you impregnate mermaids are doing a major disservice to their students. Even the ones who make you do math or open a lock while deep are partially missing the boat.
 
I'd have to disagree with your comment that "The reasons a diver with significantly more expereince, and more importantly more experience at depth will do it more efficently do not relate to a lessened degree of narcosis but rather a much higher degree of accomodation" DA Aquamaster. Of course it is true to a degree, but based on my experience the degree of narcosis at comparable depths IS linked to a changing level of tolerance.

In nearly 50 years of diving, I've been very tolerant of narcosis and functioned with a reasonably clear mind at depths down to 200 ft. I have reasonably objective ways of judging that based on the results of my filming at such depths.

When I reduced the frequency of my diving (from 300-350 to 100 dives per year) and the max depths I dive to (from 200 to about 100 ft), there was a very pronounced difference in my perception of narcosis and the objective methods I judge it by. My camera work has been erratic at depths I formerly functioned at with no obvious effects.
To be honest, I don't disagree with you. When I used to do frequent deep air dives to 150' or so with much less diving over the winter, I'd notice improvement early in the spring and summer. I would also work up to deep diving with dives to progessively deeper depths over a few weeks time.

However, I got tired of getting flamed here for suggesting that divers can develop tolerance by all the divers who apparently do not develop any degree of tolerance. And if you hint at THAT, you get flamed again.

Personally I think it is a mix of the four major factors:

1. Experience - to reduce task loading through familiarity with normal tasks.
2. Differences in inital functioning levels and susceptibility - some divers can afford to lose more than others and some are less noticeably affected than others.
3. Recency of expereince at depth (tolerance), and
4. Psychological expectations regarding narcosis - if you have been trained or indoctrinated to believe you will be debilitated by narcosis at fairly shallow depths, you will be.

The last one will also get you flamed. There is some interesting research out there but it again gets discredited even though the methodology was pretty sound.
 
You are right on DA!

A few times I have stated that I don't have a problem or suffer from the effects of narcosis and of course I'm then told I suffer from the most dangerous kind because I'm narced and don't recognize it. It's amazing I'm still alive!
 
A couple of weeks ago I was diving at 130' on air. Because I already agreed with all those who say you will be narced at that depth but not feel it, I tried to be fully aware of the possibility of a problem, and I consciously worked to maintain focus on what I was doing. At one point I noticed a slight free flow in my regulator. I started playing with its adjustment, working it until I got the best level of performance without a free flow. I observed that I was acting very alertly and effectively--no sign of narcosis.

My buddy played his light on me to get my attention. He signaled a question. Why was I using my alternate instead of my primary regulator?

Good question. I had no idea I was.

I checked my primary. It was properly clipped off to my right D-Ring, and it was working just fine when I put it back in my mouth.

I had had some problems with my alternate on past dives, and I had adjusted it on the surface earlier on that trip. My best guess is that I must have decided to try it at depth to see how it was breathing. That's just a guess, though. I have no memory of switching from my primary to my alternate.

But I felt perfectly fine, and I might have otherwise sworn that I was not at all narced.
 
I think I may have posted this before, but I am suffering from MILLER NARCOSIS :) My wife grabbed a coke can while we were at about 115'. She held onto this thing like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread 'till we got up to about 80'. Once there, she looked at the can like "*** am I doing with this thing?". That was the funniest example of narcosis I've seen yet!

Just my 2 PSI
 
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