While it's quite likely he did not feel narced and could have easily retrieved the reel, he was narced none the less. I never feel narced at that depth and am able to function quite well, but I know I am impaired and plan accordingly.
My buddy claims he was not narced at 135' (45m)....
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Next time write some math problems on your wet notes, don't show him or even let him know that you have some math problems prepared, and surprise him at depth. Let him work the problems and time him. At the surface see if his math is right.
cooperscuba
Contributor
My answers probably wouldn`t be right if I did them on the surface.
Best way to illustrate/test narcosis is the timed task at depth/timed task at surface. In my experience, people usually take 2/3s of the time on the surface as they do at depth (28-30m).
Have to go with the physics & biology and say, no matter how the buddy felt, he was narc`d.
HomelessDiver
Contributor
The single most accurate description I've ever seen was in a diving medicine book that likened it to alcohol tolerance. Are there impairments? perhaps.
That same section said that people that regularly intoxicates themselves (pretty much anyone that hangs around a diveshop) is less likely to be impaired. My non-drinking friend got narked all the time at 30m and was completely loopy at 45m. Myself, the only time I've gotten that calm Zen feeling is on superfast drift dives. But I was fine and also the one looking out for my lil' buddy. I've seen some say that 30m is deep but anything less seems shallow.... clears my head out.
Different strokes for different folks. But it does give me pause to see people unconditionally say "he was narked, just didnt know it". Thats like saying that BAC (blood alcohol content) is exact in every person. Just because the condition is there does not guarentee mental impairment.
That same section said that people that regularly intoxicates themselves (pretty much anyone that hangs around a diveshop) is less likely to be impaired. My non-drinking friend got narked all the time at 30m and was completely loopy at 45m. Myself, the only time I've gotten that calm Zen feeling is on superfast drift dives. But I was fine and also the one looking out for my lil' buddy. I've seen some say that 30m is deep but anything less seems shallow.... clears my head out.
Different strokes for different folks. But it does give me pause to see people unconditionally say "he was narked, just didnt know it". Thats like saying that BAC (blood alcohol content) is exact in every person. Just because the condition is there does not guarentee mental impairment.
Narcosis is a personal thing... it varies individual-to-individual and day-to-day in a single individual. I have been very functional down to depths of 200 ft on air when I have conditioned myself to deep diving. Recently I have been narced at 110-150 ft because I have not been doing much deep air diving in the past five months.
Walter is right... people are narced at that depth. It's just a matter of how much they are affected and how able they are to function.
Walter is right... people are narced at that depth. It's just a matter of how much they are affected and how able they are to function.
NudeDiver
Contributor
Isn't that like saying that anyone who takes a shot of gin is intoxicated - it's just a matter how well they can function? And even if that is "scientifically true" by some definition one might choose to use, is that really a useful way to define things? After all, when we say someone is "intoxicated" - we're, at a minimum, having in mind someone who is obviously "affected" somehow. Isn't the same true for when we refer to someone as "narced" ?
Saying all divers are narced, it's just a matter of how well they function seems a lot like saying all divers pee in their wetsuits, it's just a matter of whether they lie about it.
Speaking of alcohol - we know that generally speaking, a 100 pound woman who has never drank before is going to be a lot more affected by 5 beers than the 250 pound frat boy. Are you saying that it is somehow unreasonable to expect that a similar differential can also exist among divers of various shapes, sizes and experience with exposure to nitrogen at depth?
Saying all divers are narced, it's just a matter of how well they function seems a lot like saying all divers pee in their wetsuits, it's just a matter of whether they lie about it.
So, are you denying the role of genetics and tolerance (experience) with respect to intoxicating agents in the human body? If so, maybe you can win some prizes for re-writing much of what we know about drug addiction.
Speaking of alcohol - we know that generally speaking, a 100 pound woman who has never drank before is going to be a lot more affected by 5 beers than the 250 pound frat boy. Are you saying that it is somehow unreasonable to expect that a similar differential can also exist among divers of various shapes, sizes and experience with exposure to nitrogen at depth?
Gen San Chris
Contributor
I dive quite a lot and on many of our dive sites 30m plus is more the norm! I personally have never felt narced at all except for a bit of tingling in my fingers! I have never had a problem with my thinking underwater but I DO NOT DO DECO dives and drink a lot of beer (not befor the dive) so maybe my tollerance is built up a bit by now!
HomelessDiver
Contributor
I'm starting my TecRec and his intro is... dude, I'm gonna sooo get you narked for once. I'm like, sweet!
But I've done 48m on air several times and I quit smoking over a month ago - the beer's on him if I dont start hearing Stairway to Heaven in the blue. (he just doesnt know it yet)
But I've done 48m on air several times and I quit smoking over a month ago - the beer's on him if I dont start hearing Stairway to Heaven in the blue. (he just doesnt know it yet)
I used to say I was not narced at 100 fsw until I performed one of those tests that is done for most AOW students. Indeed, my performance on the test was poorer at depth than at the surface and although I did not feel narced, it was evident that I was.
As for the analogy with intoxication, there is a difference. Many states or countries have set legal limits for intoxication that, if they are exceeded, the individual is termed "legally intoxicated" (or just plain drunk). That does NOT mean they aren't intoxicated at a level below that, it simply means we have set a legal limit to define when they are too intoxicated to be considered safe.
Narcosis has no legal limit defined. Therefore any level of impairment can be designated as narced.
Personally I define being too narced as when I'm at a level where I cannot (1) locate and identify subjects to film, (2) be able to frame and follow these subjects as I film them and (3) be able to navigate back in the direction of the dive boat. Based on that personal definition, I can only think of three times I have been narced above that level on any of my "deep" (100 < max dive depth <= 200 fsw) dives.
As for the analogy with intoxication, there is a difference. Many states or countries have set legal limits for intoxication that, if they are exceeded, the individual is termed "legally intoxicated" (or just plain drunk). That does NOT mean they aren't intoxicated at a level below that, it simply means we have set a legal limit to define when they are too intoxicated to be considered safe.
Narcosis has no legal limit defined. Therefore any level of impairment can be designated as narced.
Personally I define being too narced as when I'm at a level where I cannot (1) locate and identify subjects to film, (2) be able to frame and follow these subjects as I film them and (3) be able to navigate back in the direction of the dive boat. Based on that personal definition, I can only think of three times I have been narced above that level on any of my "deep" (100 < max dive depth <= 200 fsw) dives.
Like other have said, the signs and symptoms of narcosis vary from diver to diver just like one drunk is different from another.
The key is to recognize differences in yourself and react accordingly. It's like other physiological conditions, you need to be aware that something is not right and then do something about it. Delaying corrective action may lead to something more serious.
The key is to recognize differences in yourself and react accordingly. It's like other physiological conditions, you need to be aware that something is not right and then do something about it. Delaying corrective action may lead to something more serious.
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