My dive incident

[K_girl]

aozger - I have to say, I think you wasted your money getting OW, AOW and EAN with only 2 ocean dives under your belt. You need practice with each level of training before you move on to the next. You simply cannot retain and safely practice that amount of information at once. I know dive shops and instructors encourage it, but that's for money. It is simply not practical. And actually, I think it is downright unsafe. And it is obvious from your post that you knew you were not really an advanced diver when you thought a dive master was going to be looking out for you. Just because you have an AOW cert card, does not make you an AOW diver.

In a 7-mil wetsuit in Florida? We dive 7-mils out here in California in 52-degree water. Seems to me that might have been overkill. Not sure how you came to the conclusion to dive that much wet suit in Florida, but perhaps the information-overloading caused you not to remember that you would need much more weight for a wet suit like that. Sounds like you were weighted for a 3- or 5-mil wet suit and perhaps that assumption was made by the person who you asked to help you determine your weight. So, the first mistake was made before you ever stepped foot on the boat.

The problem new divers face is getting on a boat with advanced divers who want the deeper dives. However, here is another potential case of information overload that you may have forgotten. You decided you wanted to do a 2-tank dive, but you were on a 3-tank boat trip. The first dive is the deepest dive and the dives after that always get shallower - that is always the profile. You should have elected to do the second 2 tanks and not the first two. So, why did you go against your first instinct to keep your dives shallower? I'll tell you why - because everyone else was doing it and you didn't want to be left out and you thought, well, you paid for 3 dives, maybe you might actually do 3 dives and even though the first dive is out of your comfort zone, the dive master will watch over me - just like my dive instructor did. Wrong. Dive masters on boats are not your dive instructors who are watching your every move.

Set your goals and stick to them. I did this with my progression. My first goal was, I will not go any deeper than 40 feet in cold water until I can successfully complete a 5 dives with a full safety stop in open water without the aid of anchor line or kelp. My buddy who got me into diving completely respected those goals and he helped me achieve it by doing shore dives with me. I set an exercise before every dive trip. I had to be able to remove my weights, find my reg, find my octo with my eyes closed and heavy gloves on. I did it no less than 50 times before each trip. Yes, I wanted someone there to answer my questions, help watch over me and my experienced buddy did that for me. If that is what you want, then get yourself an experienced dive buddy who enjoys helping new divers, or hire a DM who is capable of devoting his/her attention to you.

 

[jstamets]

Not sure I completely agree with the AOW should come later philosophy. Let me explain my perspective. I am a brand spankin new diver (in fact, this is my first post), but I originally took my OW class in 1987, but never finished the OW dive portion (poor college student). 22 years later, I took it again and got certified, but the OW course seemed so basic compared to what I took as a "first" course years ago that I immediately took AOW just so I could feel more "trained". I don't for a second consider myself anything more than a very green, new diver, but neither do I consider myself rushing it. I mean, rushing what? The PADI AOW is a cake course - there is nothing particularly advanced about it, unless you find recording 3 types of observed fish difficult. The only thing it adds is deeper depth and as far as I know, there is no depth police - not having an AOW won't stop you. Shoot, you don't even need a buddy, apparently (diving alone together? Sheesh!). That is not the way I would choose to dive, but I don't see how extra training could possibly contribute to someone getting into trouble. Unless, of course, they think the Advanced Open Water means you really are an Advanced diver (something I was cautioned against in class). I didn't take that away from aozgers post, though. My take on this, and I could very well be wrong, is that he would have been just fine if he was diving in the gear he was used to. The first time I wore a thicker suit I went through a similar experience until I got the weight right. But that is part of your basic OW training - when you change gear, check your weight. Don't use unfamiliar gear with an unfamiliar dive. Having AOW won't affect that at all.
I do agree completely with the balance of your post and strive to do the same regarding goals and practice excercises. I just feel that AOW can't hurt as long as you understand it doesn't make you truly advanced.

 

[scubaskipper]

12 dives, 2 in the ocean, Nitrox and AOW certs.? Someone locks up a computer, dives over for the day, no resets allowed. Read Rick's post several times and take it to heart.

 

[MuddyRubberDuck]

Take it easy on the guy. He needs a mentor, not a scolding. Anyone near him willing to take up the challenge?

Sure, I'll dive with him.

More:
Making sure people put their gear on right. (I have heard of people putting on the tank with the valve facing sideways and the DM stopping them)
Remind people to make sure air is on and BCD s inflated before going in the water.
When going down, making sure everyone s coming down together - as long as they are in the DMs group.

Nothing more. Apparently I had the wrong impression of the DM from the beginning. I assumed what I had on my previous dive was the norm. It makes more sense after your comments to think that this last dive's DM is the norm and the ones that do these checks are the exception.
I also do not have a buddy to go with, so it again makes more sense to research before to see if and how they buddy you up.

I just want to say, first, everyone here is right, you are a certified diver responsible for your own safety.

Alot of your symptoms could have come from your fear of the textbook being a new diver. You can make symptoms in your head. I think we have all done it.

Those mixes were fine for the depth, assuming you are OK with 1.6 PO2.
I don't see anything besides the ascent problem that should worry you and your EAD at 90 should have been about 68 fsw. You shouldn't have had problems.

Also, I cant remember the last time I went into the water with an inflated BC. Of course, I spear so I'm really not thinking about a group. Usually its in and down for me and my buddy.

Don't let it discourage you. This is a great sport and in time, you will get more comfortable and confident in the water.

 

[cynikill]

Ive just read your account and dont really know what to think. You were either VERY poorly trained, or didnt listen. Either way, pay for some one to one time with a reputable diving centre and tell them exactly what happened to you. I am still amazed when I hear of people taking their AOW course with so little time underwater - did you have to push to be 'trained' to this level or was it pushed? Its about time that you needed 24 hours or more underwate before you can move on. If this is how the PADI schools in your area are run, maybe its time to look for a different agency. My advice would be to put aside your AOW card for a while and dive as the novice that you are. Take time to get to know your equipment (and that included your wet suit/weighting requirements). I see the comments about not blaming the DM, had he seen your log book? Given your minimal experience (virtually none in the ocean), he should have been concerned enough about your ability to control your boyancy to intervene. The idea of diving so close to the PO2 threshold with no experience, poor boyancy and new equipment seems so ludicrous to me that I find it hard to believe no professional realised the potential for disaster. Hopefully, you now realise how lucky you are to have made it to even post this. Full credit to you for owning up and asking for advice.

 

[Nylorac]

I am a new diver....I knew it was my mistake for overlooking the weight problem and not stopping when I could not go down. I just wish the DM would oversee my safety, especially after I told him I was new.[/QUOTE]

That is called a "trust me dive" - just let me follow you and all will be well. It is what many new divers (me included when I first started diving) want but it is bad news.

First of all, listen to yourself and trust your own instincts. Your instincts were right - your weight was wrong and you weren't comfortable with the depth -- and you knew it. Always listen to that voice inside of you, even if it means missing a dive.

Second, don't give up, just find some more experienced divers to practice with who will mentor you. You will find that many experienced divers are happy to help you on your journey to becoming a better diver. Its a journey most of us want to share.

 

[Waterskier1]

Wow, I just read (or skimmed) over these 15 pages. I'm totally amazed that there are so many divers who were either born with full and profound knowledge and perfect skill of diving, or had super instructors who departed a huge wealth of information in a very short period of time such that they knew how to handle most every circumstance on their 13-th dive.

I was not that fortunate. I was really disappointed in what I thought was minimally acceptable (and sometimes unacceptable) performance I possessed to pass my OW and AOW tests. But, I must qualify this by telling you that I come from 30+ years of military experience, and much of that as a trainer/mentor. I can assure you that we don't let someone how happens to once get lucky and find the right maneuvers jump right from a flight simulator to a fighter. It takes hours of repetitive flawless performance in the simulator before a pilot is allowed to fly the actual fighter or shuttle. That's where I was coming from.

Enough on the training. I think the OP did what he could. He notified the Captain and DM of his experience, and that he was obviously solo. I don't know any agencies that advocate beginning divers diving solo (in fact, many are just now acknowledging solo diving as acceptable. I think it reasonable for the OP to infer that the DM was acting as his buddy. If not, another buddy should have been assigned or the OP should not have been allowed to dive. I suspect that the OP made this lack of buddy clear when making the reservations.

So, at that point we should concern ourselves if the professional acted as a reasonable buddy should. I believe that one who achieves a professional status knows what that basic buddy requirements are. Yet he didn't perform any of them. If he couldn't because of his DM responsibilities, he should NOT have offered.

I think a lot of good information has been presented, by divers who have years of experience and probably hundreds of dive. But, is it unreasonable to think that a new diver doesn't? I'm not asking if it's wrong or right (remember the pilot analogy), but only if it is reasonable to think that someone with only 13 dives doesn't know all that you experts know?

We all agree that each of us is responsible for our dive plan and execution of that plan, but most are not ready to do that on their 13-th dive. Just take a look at the Bonaire thread, and see how many experienced divers wonder who will show them where to go, how to dive, and how many end up taking boat dives at the worlds best shore dive location just because they don't feel comfortable leading themselves - planning and execution.

So, I say don't go so hard on the OP. All your suggests are good, but the delivery is poor. I encourage the OP and anyone else, myself included, to learn from this advise, but I can assure you that no single class can contain all the advise provided here, along with all the required material. So many of you say you get experience from diving, but you expect someone with only 13 dives to know it all.

I have found that an instructor or DM, who is working, is a very poor buddy. I will use one (I don't have a regular buddy either) when I absolutely have to, but only as a last resort. Now that I am a DM, I make it clear to any Instructor I'm working with, along with any group I might be leading, that I can not do both. Maybe in 5 years and another 500 dive I will be able to, but right now, I can either be an adequate DM, or a very good buddy, but not both. And, luckily, I don't need the money (what money?) so I can choose to make that demand. I feel I owe it to myself and the divers/buddy.

To the OP, try to get out and do as many dives ... easy dives, dives where you can experiment with weights, and not have someone hollering at you, so you can see the effects of quantity and position. Practice staying at one depth, and varying it a little just using your lungs. See how it works. Not to pass a PPB (usually passed by accident) but so you gain confidence in how it work. But just get in the water, with someone who will dive with you, get some experience on easy dives, and have fun.

 

[BOHUNTER]

Take that 7 mil to a swimming pool and see how much weight it takes to sink it. Add that to whatever it takes to sink you in just a bathing suit.
For salt water, add 2.5 pounds for every hundred pounds you and your total diving system (tank, BC, regulator, wetsuit) weigh - usually 6 - 8 pounds - over what your pool weighting is.

Thats some good info for anyone, new suits or old suits, Thanks for posting this, Keep it simple stupid!

Also This is another reason to attempt a descent by the anchor line and the ascent too. this way you might be upside down and hanging for dear life but you have control over a rapid uncontrollable ascent. Im still learning each dive too, Im new but I can tell ya Ive learned from each one! Its freakin kick arse so dont give it up! Youll see things others never will, if you like adventure and the occasional uncertainty .. its all here!

Now.
You know the weight issue
You know how it can become dangerous instantly
I hope you were exhaling
Learn your Mixes and I write mine on the tank, MOD and all. So I dont get confused later
Struggeling is air consumption
Cramps suck
and when you are at 1000PSI and at depth HEAD OUT! Dont think since your party isnt coming up youll be ok...
We had a guy run out on my first OW dive @130fsw... WHY?

Pay attention and get comfortable, close your eyes and relax its fun as hell!

Also I want to know before I go anywhere kinda guy. When I took my basic class and the guys in the class would only clear their mask when the DM commanded, I thought to myself when your at 100 feet and you or someone panics and knocks off yours or floods them your not in anyway gonna remember without a panic to replace and complete the clearing. I dont like MANCHO acting people. They are looking for trouble. My first dives after my OW, AOW, and Nitrox, yes took them all within a 2 month period was out of crystal clear water to 6 inch viz on gator country. Hey aint no level of cert gonna help you by bumping logs in no viz water! But I didnt freak and figured it out, and it was less than 30 feet. Now with my limited training and experience I figure stuff out quick, maybe I studied more than the other guy, researched on places like Scubaboard of all these stories which happen without notice. It all goes back to being prepared and relaxed. When your motor on the car starts chugging and then goes off, well your first reaction is the GAS gauge! So it starts to come naturally. I took my gear to a pool, a lake and even in a 3 feet deep kiddy pool to work on stuff. Know your gear, know where its all at, turn your air off and on, and make sure you go down in a controlled dive and have someone turn your air off, not (90fsw) but so you will know what it is! Then signal and see if you remember it all, your buddy will know whats happening before hand and its a great way to get rid of a panic bug. Try it at 10 feet! LOL But its something new, Im new at it but Ive dove comfortably 131 feet a couple times and I always find me a buddy on the boat, let them know my experience and until you get the weight right use a freakin anchor line! Study, practice, dismantle gear, and have YOUR gear serviced! I love it. Wasted 38 years on land! LOL Looking to spear my first fishy this year! Im pumped and im comfortable with my gear and diving depth. Just dont listen to all these guys bouncing around to depths over your 130ft profile. These guys can answer any question here. Glad you posted, nothing to be ashamed of.

The Diveshop here where i got my certs will let you sit in on any class youve already taken, and dive and dive they do for training new certs. So go and redo it, it wont cost ya anything now! If you dont use it you will lose it! Redo ya Nitrox class too. Dont put all your weights on the belt too, incase you are way negative its easy to take one out of a pocket and drop it than remove your belt!


Steve

 

[Nylorac]

.....relax its fun as hell!

Yes it is, and then some - thats what it is all about!

 

[Vivienne]

This is my first posting, but I felt I just had to say something.

Take it easy on the guy. He needs a mentor, not a scolding. Anyone near him willing to take up the challenge?

Exactly. I am a very inexperienced diver, probably got about 10 open water dives and I only ever dive on holiday, I am what you could disparagingly call a 'fair weather diver' I do it just for enjoyment, and as it happens it is my two fingered salute to having got cancer twice.

What I have done on all my dives is get myself an instructor to go with myself and my husband who has just got AOW. I have always been weighted properly, and the instructor always has a kilo in their pocket to give to me should I need it. I am honest up front and say I am inexperienced, or because of my particular SOH I say I am a rubbish diver and would appreciate help. I have found that being honest is the best policy, and make it quite clear that I need my hand holding and I have had a whale of a time. Thoroughly enjoyed myself, always felt I was able to do what I was doing, and backed up by a responsible instructor who was able to look after me. Recently I dived in the Maldives and did a night dive which was the highlight for me, but above all I felt safe and looked after all along the way, and that for me, being a fairweather diver is what it is about.

Better be safe than sorry. I'd rather call myself a rubbish diver and be looked after to dive another day than scare myself witless.

I hope you dive again, and I hope you get yourself an instructor to go with you and metaphorically hold your hand.