My dive incident

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I'm struggling here... how can one be AOW with only 12 dives w/ 2 in the ocean !?! Where did you do you other 10 --in a pool? It's been a while but isn't OW something like 5 real ocean dives, and AOW another 5?

Seems like you are a victim of the PADI model. My advice: don't be discouraged, don't waste any more money on certifications, find a buddy, stick to your comfort level, and keep diving.
 
... one should expect more from them...
All right, let's run with this.
Just exactly - please be specific - what do you mean by "more?"
Bearing in mind that the group, not you, hired him; consider your answer in the broader concept of the DM's whole duty to the group.
Rick
 
... how can one be AOW with only 12 dives w/ 2 in the ocean !?!
The only agency that I know requires more dives (24) is SSI.
Rick
 
Glad everything's "OK"(hopefully----), but, to me, this could be an example of the lack of training students are getting these days for the most part-------I used to say you're a certified diver & you should know better ,but, can we say that anymore???......

Again, good luck, I have no idea what to tell you...remember not eveyone that is 'certified' stays with diving.....???maybe go get some more training?......
 
aozger, I'm glad the day ended without anybody getting hurt. And in general, I think you've taken the criticisms pretty darned well. But this opinion, you need to change:

As far as the charter and the DM, since my previous ocean dive was a completely different and fun experience, my original thought still stands that one should expect more from them, otherwise it makes the difference between a DM and a Rescue Diver (or a Master Diver for that matter) obsolete.

I just finished taking the written exams for my DM class, and one of the specific questions had to do with the role of the DM in dive planning. It is the DMs role to give a general overview of the site and the proposed dive, including maximum depth, dive time, and conditions to be expected. But it is quite specifically stated that it is NOT the DM's role to do dive planning for individual divers or buddy teams. It is YOUR responsibility to look at your experience, your competencies, the gas you are diving, and your teammates and come up with a dive plan that works for YOU. And it is your responsibility to execute that dive plan safely. The DM is there for insurance -- would you plan a driving trip where you EXPECTED to have to use your auto insurance?

You did learn one really important lesson from that dive, which is that anything that is not right at the inception of the dive is unlikely to get better by going further underwater. However, I'm not going to fault you as much as some writers have, that you didn't go back for more weight. I have experienced the pressure that charter operators can put on divers, to get them in the water FAST. It takes a fair amount of backbone to resist this. And the culprits may be DMs or even instructors. My husband had to go nose to nose with an instructor on a dive boat in the South Pacific last fall, when he began to deride us for doing BUDDY CHECKS. This is someone who is supposed to teach people to do this, making fun of the only buddy pair on the boat who were doing it.

Don't let the bad example of the others on your charter boat suggest to you that it's okay to stop going over a dive plan, or doing equipment checks before getting in the water. It's not. The couple of minutes you spend doing that will prevent you from entering the water with malfunctioning equipment, or your gas turned off; and NEVER should any team get in the water without being familiar with how they are going to share air, if it's necessary, and where one another's weights are and how they are released. These were good habits you were taught. Be a PITA on the boat and to your instabuddy, and insist on doing your checks.
 
I'm struggling here... how can one be AOW with only 12 dives w/ 2 in the ocean !?! Where did you do you other 10 --in a pool? It's been a while but isn't OW something like 5 real ocean dives, and AOW another 5?

There are plenty of other bodies of OPEN WATER that are not "oceans"

- lakes
- flooded quarries
- rivers
- springs
- etc
 
I'm struggling here... how can one be AOW with only 12 dives w/ 2 in the ocean !?! Where did you do you other 10 --in a pool? It's been a while but isn't OW something like 5 real ocean dives, and AOW another 5?

Seems like you are a victim of the PADI model. My advice: don't be discouraged, don't waste any more money on certifications, find a buddy, stick to your comfort level, and keep diving.

Again jumping on the "PADI model"...there are 4 ow dives for ow certificationand 5 for advance.There is nothing wrong with taking the classes.You get as much as you put into it,just like anything else in life. The advance course is not designed to make you into a perfect diver or super experienced one.What it does is shorten the learning curve and offer the student additional dives beyond the ow level under supervision.If the student diver cannot find a mentor to dive with,then hire a instructor to dive with them.May as well get some speciality certifications while doing it.Does a person need speciality cards or adventure dives like boat diver,marine specis id,peak performance buoyancy , etc.? Of course they do not,but it can be used as an economical way to get more dive experience with an instructor to help them find their comfort zone.
 
All right, let's run with this.
Just exactly - please be specific - what do you mean by "more?"
Bearing in mind that the group, not you, hired him; consider your answer in the broader concept of the DM's whole duty to the group.
Rick

More:
Making sure people put their gear on right. (I have heard of people putting on the tank with the valve facing sideways and the DM stopping them)
Remind people to make sure air is on and BCD s inflated before going in the water.
When going down, making sure everyone s coming down together - as long as they are in the DMs group.

Nothing more. Apparently I had the wrong impression of the DM from the beginning. I assumed what I had on my previous dive was the norm. It makes more sense after your comments to think that this last dive's DM is the norm and the ones that do these checks are the exception.
I also do not have a buddy to go with, so it again makes more sense to research before to see if and how they buddy you up.
 
Thanks RJP.

My whole point was that it was mostly my inexperience and not being able to think about everything so fast that caused this.

As far as the charter and the DM, since my previous ocean dive was a completely different and fun experience, my original thought still stands that one should expect more from them, otherwise it makes the difference between a DM and a Rescue Diver (or a Master Diver for that matter) obsolete. At least on the textbook definition and what I had heard in my OW classes about them not letting people dive without proper gear and checks. I may have gotten the wrong impression based on what most people are saying. In fact, more so since I was offered to have my watch reset to dive again after the incident than at least be given some checks, or even O2 just as a precaution.
I think you have missed the point of all these posts!

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY!
 
More:

Making sure people put their gear on right. (I have heard of people putting on the tank with the valve facing sideways and the DM stopping them)
Remind people to make sure air is on and BCD s inflated before going in the water.

:confused:

Does your mommy still dress you in the morning?
Do you wait for the crossing guard to take you by the hand when you cross the street?

YOU ARE A CERTIFIED DIVER!

  • YOU are responsible for putting your gear on right!
  • YOU are responsible for ensuring your air is on; in fact...
  • YOU are responsible for making sure that some well-intentioned, albeit dim-witted DM didn't mistakenly turn it OFF!
Sorry to be so brusk about it, but you need to understand what we're saying.

It's a critical mindset that you must adopt as a diver: You cannot allow yourself to relinquish even the tiniest bit of responsibility for ensuring your own safety to someone else. Of course one would hope that if a DM or other diver saw you doing something wrong/dangerous that they would say something. However, you simply cannot allow the thought that "someone else is looking out for me" to creep in to your thinking.

Yeah, it may sound overly dramatic, but the moment you allow that idea to take up even a little mental real-estate...you're dead.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom