My first solo dive

[captain]

Can you comprehend that maybe he wants to do it his way and has every right to do it his way, no explanation to you needed.

 

[DaleC]

I believe there are different types of solo divers. Those who are naturally inclined and those who work up to it.
Those who are naturally inclined just do it. They don't ask permission.
Those who work up to it usually follow a pathway set out by someone else, achieve certain preset benchmarks, rely on assessment by others etc... Their sense of safe passage is based on this and it really bothers them when others don't follow the same pathway. It must seem unsafe.

I took OW and AOW consecutively, did a few buddy dives and began soloing on dive 23. I've intentionally chosen to self educate myself since then and do not regret the process. I believe there is value in taking control of ones own learning and in developing the ability to self evaluate - exactly the skills one needs as a soloist.

As far as phylosophy: I believe in a gradual progression of solo diving environments and experiences (like the concept of progressive wreck penetration) while concurrently learning from more challenging team diving and/or mentors. The two activities complement each other and occur at the same time, not consecutively. I solo, I team dive, I solo, I team dive; assessing and reassessing as I go. I also do a hell of a lot of reading: historical, biographical, technical.

But that's just me. Like Captain I don't tell others what they should or should not do. I just relate my own personal experience.

As for rejecting the methods of the past for the progressive approaches of today...
Let's take bouyancy as an example. No modern rec course I know of teaches the ability to achieve it without the use of a BCD (an equipment solution). Result; divers who are usually overweighted and lacking in skill. Certified and sent on their way. In the "dumb ol daze" bouyancy was achieved by proper weighting (from the start) and breath control (a skills solution). Tsk tsk what a bunch of dinosaurs they were. Get with the equipment solution generation. Even the notion of needing a formal instructor to learn is an equipmnent solution to a skills deficit. "I don't know how to learn if someone isn't there to teach me" sounds like it to me.

And for the record; I still don't know what I don't know - what a stupid concept. Albert Einstein didn't know what he didn't know either.

 

[DevonDiver]

Can you comprehend that maybe he wants to do it his way and has every right to do it his way, no explanation to you needed.

At what point has anyone suggested that he didn't have a right to do it?

At what point did anyone demand an explanation from him?

He posted his experiences on a public discussion forum. People have commented on those experiences from a variety of viewpoints, They've provided feedback that fitted their perceptions and opinions.

For myself, I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm saying that he is very unwise to do it (without appropriate training and experience). I've presented various evidence to substantiate and explain my opinions on that.

If the OP lived near me, I'd be more than happy to take him diving and demonstrate how and why I hold those opinions. He doesn't live near me, which is why I recommend he finds someone close by, who can mentor him and aid his understanding.

I don't see why you would try and veer this into a soap-box discussion into an issue about 'rights'?

 

[DevonDiver]

I believe there are different types of solo divers. Those who are naturally inclined and those who work up to it.
Those who are naturally inclined just do it. They don't ask permission.
Those who work up to it usually follow a pathway set out by someone else, achieve certain preset benchmarks, rely on assessment by others etc... Their sense of safe passage is based on this and it really bothers them when others don't follow the same pathway. It must seem unsafe.

I disagree. I think there are different type of divers... different mindsets. But I also believe that some people are unaware of their limitations, or unaware of the risks... or a combination of both.

There are confident, naturally inclined divers.

There are more methodical divers who believe in following 'rules'.

There are also over-confident, under-informed, divers who do stupid things out of ignorance and ego.

I took OW and AOW consecutively, did a few buddy dives and began soloing on dive 23. I've intentionally chosen to self educate myself since then and do not regret the process. I believe there is value in taking control of ones own learning and in developing the ability to self evaluate - exactly the skills one needs as a soloist.

I never took a technical wreck course. 20 years, 4000+ dives....and 800 wreck penetration dives later, I teach it...and I conduct solo deep technical wreck penetration dives. I self-taught. But I did that progressively and with respect for the dangers. Where I didn't know the dangers, I erred on the side of caution. I sought information, mentoring and advice wherever I could - but at the early stages, there was no availability for formal training in that activity. I now do it mostly solo because there is an absolute scarcity of divers here that can safely undertake the dives that I do.

I'm not a member of the 'scuba police'. Neither am I a 'training Nazi'. I understand what you and Captain are saying, trust me, I do. I just believe that in this particular instance, the OP is unwise to do what he is doing. Furthermore, I feel that it is completely unnecessary for him to be doing what he is doing.

I'm not quibbling his right to do it. I'm addressing his wisdom in doing it.

As far as phylosophy: I believe in a gradual progression of solo diving environments and experiences (like the concept of progressive wreck penetration) while concurrently learning from more challenging team diving and/or mentors. The two activities complement each other and occur at the same time, not consecutively. I solo, I team dive, I solo, I team dive; assessing and reassessing as I go. I also do a hell of a lot of reading: historical, biographical, technical.

You may be surprised to know that our philosophies match.

However, in regards to this thread, I don't see anything progressive or gradual in solo diving straight from an OW course. Consequently, I disagree with the OP's approach to diving. I believe it exhibits the wrong mindset.

If the OP did more reading; historical, biographical, technical... did some team diving, assessed and re-assessed.... then I would feel far more reassured that he had the right mindset.. and was prepared to dive with a sufficient degree of safety. There's no sign of that though. He did a 4-dive OW course, which teaches the bare minimum of capability and is hardly sufficient for safe buddy diving, let alone solo diving. His posts exhibit a lack of risk awareness. In many instances, his posts exhibit a lack of capability to deal with foreseeable problems (note his emphasis on the 'dangers' of losing your reg...).

As for rejecting the methods of the past for the progressive approaches of today...

I don't believe anyone has 'rejected' the methods of the past? I merely stated that more resources and knowledge are available today, which widens a divers' options in regards to the development. I also stated that divers learnt a certain way in 1957 because there was no other option. Nonetheless, those divers did what they could to mitigate risks, maximise learning and keep themselves safe. I don't believe the OP is exhibiting that same mindset, because there's no evidence that the OP has considered his options, tried to maximise his learning or do everything in his power to keep himself safe.

I still don't know what I don't know - what a stupid concept. Albert Einstein didn't know what he didn't know either.

Albert Einstein ventured beyond the frontiers of human knowledge.

Not knowing the risks and requirements of solo diving, before doing it, isn't defined by a frontier of knowledge... it's defined by laziness to learn.

Participating in an activity that has definite risks, without addressing your knowledge and capability of dealing with those risks is unwise. Where that knowledge and capability can be easily and conveniently accessed.... it is also laziness... or arrogance.

I don't know much about quantum physics. But I know that knowledge exists. If I chose to spend my life investigating quantum physics from scratch...rather than just going to college and learning about it... then I'd be wasting my time. It would be a lack of wisdom.

The OP knows that further knowledge and training exists in scuba diving. He chooses not to pursue that knowledge... but, instead, chooses to go through a process of taking risks and learning lessons that others have already accomplished. That's not pioneering. That's unwise.

 

[Slamfire]

I don't believe anyone has 'rejected' the methods of the past?

Ragnar's post looks like a 'rejection'.

Seems to me there is a fundamental flaw in thinking that if that's how it was done in the olden days and someone is still here to make that statement that it is somehow good enough. Forget "good enough"...

...how about being a bit more progressive and using the things now available such as better training!

Whether today's training is better than that in the olden days is a point of contention that has been debated ad nauseam in the recent past. There have been some good arguments in support of training old-school-style. I personally believe modern training cuts a lot of corners, cranks out a lot of divers dependent on DM's, instructors, or buddies who, interestingly enough, may be just as under-trained as they are. Which leads me to think why are two undertrained divers better than one? Aren't you now doubling your chances of disaster?

What is the new world order's answer to undertraining? Get another card or specialty -- the sooner you do it the better you're going to be. Personally, I like to pile up 100 or so dives in between relevant courses and read a lot about the subject matter. After diving old school for 16 years, modern day OW (even AOW) is hardly relevant. I thought OW would be useful because I was moving from the tropics into Canada's west coast. My social diving circle was now gone. I was going to have trouble getting tank fills. And I thought the course would help me out facing the challenges of cold water diving. Frankly, it was a dissapointment.

I have two drysuits but never took a drysuit course and never rented a drysuit. I did do 96 cold water dives before moving on to a drysuit. I was not fond of the idea of moving into drysuit complexity before I got my cold water buoyancy to an acceptable level. I also started diving doubles and carrying a slinged bottle before actually taking my first tech course. By the time I took it I had done many valve drills and was perfectly comfortable handling a slinged bottle. You may have seen a common denominator in this paragraph. I will and do exceed my (formal) training. That's how I like to learn.

If I stay stuck following the axiom that I am not to do dives that exceed my training, I would be severely hampering the way I learn. I would be solely dependent on the system. I don't like that. I enjoy self reliancy. After all it's my own hide at risk, not the agency, dive shop, nor instructor/dm.

 

[DaleC]

Andy, I think IRL we would probably agree on many things. I've read your articles and know that you are passionate about diving and are probably a great instructor. I've never had anything against great instructors; in fact, I think we need more of them.

But here on the board we are all just individuals and the benefit of that is we get to share differing approaches to the diving experience. The solo subforum isn't just an extension of the PADI approach where in we are valid if we follow the prescribed solo diving course curriculum/prerequisites.
The "formal education approach" is one pathway. The self taught approach is another. Both are valid and have their pros and cons. To me many aspects of the formal approach, as it is currently delivered, seem sub optimal and I am sure to you, many aspects of the self taught approach seem like wise.

Some of us also have the perspective of not being a dive professional, and thus feel no need to teach or correct others in their methodology. We just share our experiences and leave it at that. It may seem cold hearted to do so but one of the prices of liberty is allowing others to succeed or fail by their own means if that is what they choose. If someone seeks advice I will offer what I can, but I try not to make that next leap and offer critiques when they are not solicited. It's not my job.

To the OP:

Here's a link to the thread relating my first solo dive. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/solo-divers/250022-planning-diving-solo.html I just reread it and was impressed by the number of positive responses it generated at the time. I did dive with both those locals guys who offered to buddy and still consider them friends. I also get a chuckle out of my positive affirmations but still stand by them damn it!

 

[Mike2Fst]

Kudos to you. You managed to follow your desire and experience the thrill you sought. The dive bug is a hard one shake. Coming from an aviation background, I felt your desires and longings as if they were my own, I understand precisely where you were coming from. With that said, go get the appropriate training and develope the skills necessary to further your diving passions. The wright brothers didn't have their pilots licenses when they got started but that was the beginnings of the FAA. I'm know you had flight training before you were released to solo and with each aircraft type you must become qualified, should hold true with diving. Diving solo is like a new aircraft type. Should you end up in the Carolinas some day, look me up, I'll show you some great dive sites.