National Aquarium in Baltimore Diving

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offthewall1

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
1,096
Reaction score
61
Location
Baltimore, MD
# of dives
2500 - 4999
It seems as though Atlantic Edge Scuba has developed a monopoly within a Public Non Profit Organization which is detrimental to both the Aquarium and all other Dive Shops and consumers in the Mid-Atlantic region.

It is my understanding that if any dive shop - other than Atlantic Edge wishes to run an Aquarium Diver program, then it must be run through Atlantic Edge. While it is wrong on many levels, let me start with the most obvious.

1. The National Aquarium in Baltimore is a Public Non Profit 501 c 3 organization. While it has the ability to affiliate with outside organizations, it must be done on an equitable basis. The simplest way to explain my point is to give an example.

When Powhatten Elementary School wants to take a class of students to visit the Australian Exhibit, it does not have to pay a fee to Dundalk Elementary to do so... therefore -

When Off the Wall Scuba wants to take a class of Students to the Wings in the Water Exhibit, it should not have to pay Atlantic Edge Scuba to do so. Funds should be paid directly to the National Aquarium in Baltimore - the same as any other visitors to the Aqaurium.

2. The question of allowing the monopoly of a "for profit" business to operate within the Aquarium is yet another issue that may bring into question the Aquarium's non profit status.

3. While Atlantic Edge may say they do not collect the student data of other dive shops which participate in the program as it is currently run, students of all other dive shops are forced to interact with their staff and given that they have an exclusive arrangement with the Aquarium - and the Aquarium collects participant information via signed Liability Waivers, there is at least the perception of impropriety.

Furthermore...

A number of dive shops refuse to participate in the program which means they do not actively promote or advertise the program, thereby limiting public access (via lack of knowledge.) This lack of participation means less income for the non-profit as well as tarnishes it's image among many other local businesses. The exclusive arrangement also allows for price fixing as there is no competition among other local shops to offer competitive pricing.

I have no problem telling you that when I approached the Aqaurium about running a similar program independent of Atlantic Edge, I was told to contact Atlantic Edge. I even received an email from Atlantic Edge informing me that from now on, I should contact them if I wanted to run a program there... and they offered me a whopping $65 (22%) of the $295 they charge people to participate in the program. We have inquired how much of the $295 goes to the Aquarium and we have yet to get an answer.

It should be noted that as a former Associate Corporate Partner of the Aqaurium (KB Diver Services,) I pulled my sponsorship of the Aquarium due to this situation. I am asking all dive shop owners in the Mid-Atlantic region as well as concerned divers to join a petition to allow open and equal access to all local dive shops who wish to run a diving program at the National Aquarium in Baltimore. Of course if you disagree with my position, I'd like to hear from you as well as to why you feel the current arrangement is acceptible.

I look forward to your thoughts
 
that guy has a monopoly too.

I have been trying to start a fish taco stand inside that place but they want you to have a "proven business plan" and "history" and to "know what you're doing." they tell me that these fish "only eat fish food that is scientifically vitamin enriched"

To which i respond, "of course they only eat vitamin enriched fish, if that is all you ever feed them."

I mean seriously what fish or any other mammal wouldn't enjoy a good taco? :idk:
 
Really Ken. Don't you have anything better to do?
 
Really Ken. Don't you have anything better to do?

I am confused, I don't know who you are, but clearly you know Ken. You say doesn't he have anything better to do, I would think as a dive shop owner, he is doing it. He is trying to expand his own business by offering what another shop seems to have their clutches in.

Seems like its a reasonable thing to go after. Now if he were in the construction business, then this might not make any sense, but he is in the dive business.
 
Phil,

I know you as well. I was part of the group that Ken let go on 12/31/09 at 11:46pm because we did not invite him to our party and he wouldn't accept that we couldn't invite him to our party if we wanted to do business down the road. I found out the answer to Kens question and yeah, I'm a bit bitter still.

Chris
 


A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

AtlanticEdge is a member and has been made aware of this post, with an invitation to present their side of this issue. Please stay on topic and refrain from any personal attacks​

 
It seems as though Atlantic Edge Scuba has developed a monopoly within a Public Non Profit Organization which is detrimental to both the Aquarium and all other Dive Shops and consumers in the Mid-Atlantic region.
That's your opinion, clearly the management of the Aquarium does not agree with you.
It is my understanding that if any dive shop - other than Atlantic Edge wishes to run an Aquarium Diver program, then it must be run through Atlantic Edge. While it is wrong on many levels, let me start with the most obvious.

1. The National Aquarium in Baltimore is a Public Non Profit 501 c 3 organization. While it has the ability to affiliate with outside organizations, it must be done on an equitable basis. The simplest way to explain my point is to give an example.

When Powhatten Elementary School wants to take a class of students to visit the Australian Exhibit, it does not have to pay a fee to Dundalk Elementary to do so... therefore -

When Off the Wall Scuba wants to take a class of Students to the Wings in the Water Exhibit, it should not have to pay Atlantic Edge Scuba to do so. Funds should be paid directly to the National Aquarium in Baltimore - the same as any other visitors to the Aqaurium.
You are confusing a public institution with a not-for-profit institution, they are not the same thing and do not have the same constraints. If the Aquarium decides that it is their best interest to have an exclusive relation with one dive shop, that's their business and not yours.
2. The question of allowing the monopoly of a "for profit" business to operate within the Aquarium is yet another issue that may bring into question the Aquarium's non profit status.
Then take your complaint to the IRS. I suspect that they'll tell you were to stick it.
3. While Atlantic Edge may say they do not collect the student data of other dive shops which participate in the program as it is currently run, students of all other dive shops are forced to interact with their staff and given that they have an exclusive arrangement with the Aquarium - and the Aquarium collects participant information via signed Liability Waivers, there is at least the perception of impropriety.
I see no problem here, if you do not want to risk the possible use of such information by a competitor, keep your people home.
Furthermore...

A number of dive shops refuse to participate in the program which means they do not actively promote or advertise the program, thereby limiting public access (via lack of knowledge.) This lack of participation means less income for the non-profit as well as tarnishes it's image among many other local businesses. The exclusive arrangement also allows for price fixing as there is no competition among other local shops to offer competitive pricing.
Again, that is a management decision of the Aquarium that they have the right to make. Take your complaint to the Aquarium Director's Office.
I have no problem telling you that when I approached the Aqaurium about running a similar program independent of Atlantic Edge, I was told to contact Atlantic Edge. I even received an email from Atlantic Edge informing me that from now on, I should contact them if I wanted to run a program there... and they offered me a whopping $65 (22%) of the $295 they charge people to participate in the program. We have inquired how much of the $295 goes to the Aquarium and we have yet to get an answer.
It is none of your business.
It should be noted that as a former Associate Corporate Partner of the Aqaurium (KB Diver Services,) I pulled my sponsorship of the Aquarium due to this situation. I am asking all dive shop owners in the Mid-Atlantic region as well as concerned divers to join a petition to allow open and equal access to all local dive shops who wish to run a diving program at the National Aquarium in Baltimore. Of course if you disagree with my position, I'd like to hear from you as well as to why you feel the current arrangement is acceptible.
Somehow I suspect that they were not too sad to see you go.
I look forward to your thoughts
Stop whining and take whatever action you see fit.
 
I know you as well.
Thats because I sign EVERY SINGLE POST with my name. I don't try to hide. With that being said, I think I know you now, you were working or are a divemaster now? I was really under the impression that Ken had helped you along your way. I am not sure what party you are talking about, but I did understand that Ken terminated some sub-contractors for poor business practices. I don't see anything wrong with that. Also he is certainly allowed to do whatever he likes, its his store.

However, the moderator is right, we should get back on topic. So...

You are confusing a public institution with a not-for-profit institution, they are not the same thing and do not have the same constraints. If the Aquarium decides that it is their best interest to have an exclusive relation with one dive shop, that's their business and not yours.

Can't they be one in the same? I guess that was rhetorical, I know they can. In addition, that can also be interpreted as an abtrasct assumption by a judge. The aquarium is a major staple of education and knowledge in Baltimore. Its a living museum. I think you would find that this type of argument is hard when it comes to a place with such public interest vs a small unknown non profit that maybe rescues dogs in a small town.
 
...

Can't they be one in the same? I guess that was rhetorical, I know they can. In addition, that can also be interpreted as an abtrasct assumption by a judge. The aquarium is a major staple of education and knowledge in Baltimore. Its a living museum. I think you would find that this type of argument is hard when it comes to a place with such public interest vs a small unknown non profit that maybe rescues dogs in a small town.
I do not believe that they can be. A public institution (e.g., a High School) is a very different legal entity than is a not-for-profit (501c3). The amount of visibility doesn't really matter or effect that. Now it is possible for both to receive donations from the public as well as funding through public funds, but they are fundamentally different sorts of entities.
 
I do not know any of you or the politics of the Baltimore Aquarium. however if the aquarium wants a single operator to filter the dust off the people that get in its publicly funded pool then I would support that. After all if you cant pass whatever hurdle they set up to swim in the pool then don't mess with the fish. I am sure the gatekeeper has some simple rules you must follow so follow them. as far as you not being able to make any money off of it, well i guess it pays to be first and innovative, sorry you were not first. I want the job of collecting the fees to dive in the national off shore parks.:D
 
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