NAUI MSD and PADI Rescue

[scubakev07]

Hi guys quick question.

Currently at a crossroads here I'm not sure if I should do a NAUI MSD or a PADI Rescue course.

While googling it, it appears that both courses are identical in that they come after advanced open water/advanced scuba diver. However the NAUI MSD has a heavier emphasis on sciences, whys and hows while the PADI Rescue course is about lifesaving skills? (Do correct me if I'm wrong)

From a training progression point of view, what's between AOW/Advanced Scuba and dive master? I guess I can't really tell from google if I can do a PADI/NAUI DM immeidately after a NAUI MSD. I'm aware that PADI Rescue is the pre-requisite for DM. So is the NAUI MSD an alternate pathway or am I missing something here?

Lets say I could only do one which would be the preferred option?

I'm probably one of the newest to diving here so opinions and input from all that are more experienced than me (ie: everyone) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance



ps: multiple google searches and forum lurking yielded no concrete answers just repeated threads on these 3 things
1. Confusion about the PADI MSD cert and NAUI MSD course
2. Confusion about the MSD and DM courses in general for both PADI and NAUI
3. PADI MSD bashing

 

[tursiops]

NAUI MSD is an actual course, and by all accounts is a good course. It is NOT a Rescue class. NAUI offers that separately.
PADI MSD is a certification level, not a class in itself; you can apply for that certification if you have completed Rescue, 5 specialties, and have 50 logged dives.
PADI DM requires Rescue certification, which in itself requires AOW certification and EFR. Equivalents from other agencies are OK.
NAUI DM requires a lot of prerequisites, which are clearly listed on their website.

Actually, I think ALL the info you are looking for is pretty easily available on the agencies websites, including content and prerequisites. Spend your time on the agency websites, not the forums, which are full of silly opinions and bad information.

No, you cannot go directly to NAUI DM from NAUI MSD.

When you say "do only one," what do you mean? Your next class, or picking an agency.? If you mean NAUI MSD or PADI Rescue, then Rescue is probably more useful, at least in a training progression toward being a professional and as a personal enrichment activity. Ultimately, you want LOTS of training, not just those two choices.

 

[shurite7]

PADI Rescue and NAUI MSD are not the same. A better comparison is PADI MSD and NAUI MSD, or PADI Rescue and NAUI Rescue. Each agency has its own requirement as to which order courses are taught. For example, PADI Rescue is taught after Advanced Open Water and is required for MSD. With NAUI, Rescue is a specialty course and not a prereq for MSD. Although, I know of plenty of NAUI instructors (including myself) who encourage people to take Rescue before MSD.

NAUI's MSD has a greater focus on physics, physiology, deco (NDL) theory, environment, equipment than PADI's MSD in terms of academics. NAUI requires a minimum of eight dives, PADI requires five specialties (each specialty taken as a separate course).

Since I teach with both agencies I recommend you take Rescue before taking MSD.

Divemaster (DM)
A NAUI DM focuses more on leading divers than teaching. Many NAUI DM candidates go through NAUI Assistant Instructor at the same time or take it as a separate course before going through DM training. In the order of hierarchy a NAUI AI is a lower ranking than a NAUI DM.

A PADI Divemaster can assist an instructor with teaching as well as guiding certified divers. A PADI AI is a higher ranking than a PADI DM.

There are many more differences than listed above.

Bashing
If you sit back and observe those who are doing the bashing you will find that many of them lack in depth knowledge to make accurate comparisons, judgements, let alone comprehend the differences in philosophy. Many bashers aren't even certified with the agency they are bashing. One can go on and on with this issue. What I have learned from reading and listening to those who bash is there is a lot of ignorant and egotistical divers flaunting their opinion.

 

[scubakev07]

@tursiops thx for the reply. I did check both agency's websites. PADI's was pretty clear cut in what comes after what and etc with the helpful flowchart but NAUI's has a list of stuff under career progression which states

The NAUI Progression of Training:

• NAUI Skin Diver
• NAUI Scuba Diver
• NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver
• NAUI Specialty Courses
• NAUI Master Scuba Diver
• NAUI Technical Courses
• NAUI Leadership Courses (AI, DM, SDI)
• NAUI Instructor

Since NAUI's MSD is below the specialty diver I assumed it was a higher qualification.
I guess I got misled by strangers posting stuff on forums =P
Now that I've fully read the NAUI FIT course I think it clears up my misconceptions. Thanks for that
Was talking about my next class as I don't have the budget to go for all of them

@shurite7 thx for the elaboration and recommendation. Since you teach both, which do you feel is more in depth(syllabus wise. Although I'm aware that it's more instructor dependent than syllabus dependent) and would better prepare me for any potential issues I might face while diving?

 

[boulderjohn]

From a training progression point of view, what's between AOW/Advanced Scuba and dive master? I guess I can't really tell from google if I can do a PADI/NAUI DM immeidately after a NAUI MSD. I'm aware that PADI Rescue is the pre-requisite for DM.

I think the familar PADI course structure does a real disservice to students trying to plan their future training through it format. It suggests a OW-AOW-Rescue-MSD/DM route as the only way to progress in training. That leads to some unfortunate choices.

The focus of DM training is very much on working with instruction or leading dives as a profession. If you aren't going to do that, there is no point in that program for you. The Master Scuba diver program, which consists of 5 specialty courses only, looks like a dead end. The truth is that if you look for individual classes (specialty classes or others, including technical diving) rather than big category titles, you have a nearly endless set of opportunities for learning.

I keep my certification cards in a little box and pull out the ones I need when I need them. They come from 5 agencies. I don't know how many there are, but I just measured them and see the stack is 2 inches thick. Maybe half of them relate to my work as an instructor. The rest are a couple of specialties, cave diving, technical diving, Dive Propulsion Vehicle, etc.

And I don't even qualify for the PADI Master Scuba Diver certification yet.

 

[ScubaDocER]

Greeting scubakev07!! If I may I will attempt to address your question from a NAUI perspective. As others have stated there is not direct comparison between the NAUI MSD course and the PADI Rescue course. They are indeed 2 separate courses. There is a NAUI Rescue Course and an Advanced Rescue Course. The Advanced Course requires more diving, requires the oxygen provider certification, and expounds on management of the scene until help arrives. The Master Scuba Diver Course is an actual course that requires 8 dives and covers topics ranging from emergency procedures and rescue to simulated decompression diving, search and recovery, etc. It also goes into more detail regarding dive physics, decompression theory, dive planning, and dive equipment. Prerequisites for the course include being an Advanced diver.

NAUI updated its Standards and Policies as of this year and the current prerequisites for Divemaster include completion of NAUI's FIT (Familiarization-Instruction-Testing) program. The prerequisites for entering the FIT program include being:

1. Certified as a NAUI Scuba Diver or the equivalent.
2. Certification as a NAUI Rescue Scuba Diver or the
equivalent.
3. Certified as a NAUI Nitrox Diver or equivalent.
4. Certified as a NAUI Master Scuba diver or equivalent.
5. Certified in NAUI First Aid for Dive Professionals or
equivalent.
6. Certified in NAUI Oxygen Provider or equivalent.

So it is correct that you cannot go directly from MSD to Divemaster. The FIT program must be completed first. The MSD course is not an alternate pathway, but a required pathway to becoming a dive leader under NAUI. The purpose of the FIT program is to better prepare candidates to successfully pass their leadership classes.

The certifications between Advanced and MSD are varied. They include specialty certifications, (night, deep, photography, nitrox, etc), CPR/First Aid, and Rescue.

The sequence is really up to you and the Instructor depending on your needs and desires.

My preferred sequence is OW, Advanced and Nitrox together, First Aid/CPR, Oxygen Provider, Advanced Rescue, MSD, FIT, DM, Instructor.

As an aside, you do not have to be an Assistant Instructor to be a DM, you can be one or the other. Either path can lead to being an Instructor. The DM pathway has more requirements but also is more empowered.

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

 

[scubakev07]

@boulderjohn thx for the reply I didn't actually realise that you get a card for each completed specialty. Kinda expected a Lord-of-all-cards that lists everything you've learned so you just bring that everywhere? Wasn't told how my advanced card would look like and am still waiting for it. Kinda expected to trade in my OW card for an advanced card

@ScubaDocER I think if NAUI had your post on their site it would render my thread redundant
Excellent summary of all the answers and concrete answer to my question. Thx for the help
Wanted to PM you to ask about some non-topic related stuff but not sure why there isn't an option to send a message.


A big thank you to all the guys who have helped out in this thread
I guess since my question has been answered this thread can be closed?
Unless there are others that want to add more stuff in

 

[ScubaDocER]

You are welcome to message me anytime. I'm glad I could help.

 

[shurite7]

Angelfish, ScubadocER has done a nice job explaining the NAUI MD course.

Personally I prefer the NAUI MD. At the same time I encourage people to take some specialty courses to augment the MD course.

You made the statement "better prepare me for any potential issues I might face while diving?" Two of the best courses that I took years ago that meet your criteria were Rescue and Basic Fundamentals. Rescue is good at making people view their diving in a more open eyed manner and Fundies, as we called it, made everyone in the group perfect their skills from basic to rescue to tech. For many, the weakness to Fundies is specific equipment is needed.

Hopefully this helps.