Newbie, Poor Diver or Jerk?

[pir8]

It all breaks down to one thing, you learn to dive by diving. The more you get out there and dive, the better you will get at it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I know its a little time consuming but perhaps you could take a little time to read my all my posts in this thread before you give you allmighty opinion.

Actually, I have read your posts ... they come across to me like you have the attitude of a 16-year old kid who's got life all figured out and can't understand why all the adults are so damned dense.

Notice where I said,"if it's mentioned in the preplan that there should be a 10 ft space between him and I..."

I also noticed where you said "You apparently think that it should take everyone else just as long to learn something as it took you. Surprise, some people are honor students and others, well they just graduate."

I don't doubt you have some basic skills ... and yes, as a scuba instructor, I don't need you to tell me that different people learn at different rates ... I experience it every week. What I'm telling you is that being a competent scuba diver takes more than basic skill ... it also takes good judgment and an appropriate attitude. You develop the former by diving ... and at 30 dives, you are only beginning that journey. As to the latter ... all those posts I've read from you suggest that you think very highly of your skills. Perhaps they are as good as you say ... and if so, I congratulate you, because you'll be such an exceptional diver as to surpass anyone at your experience level that I've ever met. But somehow I doubt it. Human nature being what it is, most of us view ourselves as being better at a given activity than we actually are. What I'm trying to tell you is that in scuba diving, that can get you in trouble.

Do you not take into account viz and current and other factors before the diveplan is given? If I asked him to give me 10 ft of viz then obviuosly its not 2ft viz dive.

How would you know in advance of the dive? Vis is often quite different at 20 feet than at the surface. As for current, you can only use the current tables to plan your dive ... and there's a reason they call 'em "predictions".

No, he is not going to leave me behind because I don't play that follow the leader game. Its side by side when I dive.

Side-by-side at a distance of 10 feet? Color me impressed ... you've invented a new skill.

And if you plan on racing while diving then you're on your own.

Ah ... just the attitude I'd look for in a buddy. Now this is something you should definitely establish before the dive.

I dive nice and easy.

So do I ... conditions permitting. There's where you are missing the point, however ...

Its those benign conditions that I'm saying 10ft space and you guys act like its going to kill someone.

Actually, that's not what you said. And I'm not responding to what you said in any event ... I'm responding to how you're saying it. Do you honestly think you're the exceptional diver? I ... and most instructors ... have dealt with exceptional divers at your experience level. Many turn out to be great divers over time ... and some just acquire reasonably good physical skills but never progress to the point where I'd trust myself diving with them. The difference is almost always in how they view themselves.

I don't need to have 200 dives to know that there's alot that I don't know. But don't tell me that because I only have 30 dives, that I must not know how to control my buoyancy because all newbs typically bump everyone else. Even after my OW cert all I did was practice buoyancy and trim. Its seems that you guys took longer to learn it than I, and are mad that I don't feel I have a problem with those skills.

Ah ... no. See, you're really missing the point. My comments to you have nothing to do with your buoyancy control.

I'm overconfident? How would you know? You don't dive with me? You don't know what I'm confident about.

I can only address what you say ... and how you say it.

If you did, you'd see its just about the basics. How could you say that operating that inflator takes incredible skills? Its not a science. Maybe to you it was but I found it easy and thats a fact. Maybe you didn't when you started but like I said, we all learn at a different rate. I never said anyone was a dummy for not learning it quick.

Exhibit A ...

I want a 10ft space on a dive that's easy and simple and you can't stand it. WHATEVER !!! Tell it to the guys who are fine with their buddy being simply in the same ocean...

I want my buddies where I can see them at all times, and where I can reach them quickly and easily if there's an issue. I want my buddies to be more than simply "there" ... I want them to be communicating with me throughout the dive. 10 feet distance is appropriate in some cases ... but not in all, or even most.

There are obviously skills involved in being a buddy that you haven't even imagined yet. Perhaps someday you will ... but like the 16-year old who's got life all figured out, you will first have to come to realize that you aren't even asking the right questions yet ... much less coming up with the right answers.

That doesn't have anything to do with your buoyancy control ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pir8]

Don't forget greatful that some people just know more than everyone else.

 

[nyprrthd]

I am a little puzzled by comments criticizing those with a low number of dives offering advice and opinion.

If you disagree with someone's take on the problem then offer an alternative and reasons for the differing opinion. Don't just attempt to belittle their opinions by criticising their level of experience and compentency to give the opinion.

One of the best ways of learning and consolidating learning into action is to attempt to express/explain what you have learned to others.

Expressing your opinion and having someone with more experience or knowledge point out the flaws in the opinion is an excellent learning tool. Much better than just sitting and reading an "expert's" opinion. There is nowhere near the level of engagement in just reading. (For most people.)

We all (well most of us) post our number of dives and our location. This gives a yardstick for others to judge our level of expertise when reading our posts. Not a perfect one, but it is at least an indication of experience.

I am going to pay more attention to an Instructor from the PNW with 2000 + dives than I am to someone with 20 dives on the GBR. However, I am going to read both opinions and integrate both of them into my world view and keep an open mind knowing that both may have something to say that I can learn from.

When I post I am giving my opinion based on my current skill set, as is everyone else. I post for two reasons, first to offer a point of view, second to see if anyone disagrees with me. Hopefully if they do they will tell me why and I can reevaluate my opinion based on this new information. I suspect I am not alone, don't need anyone, regardless of their experience level, suggesting that my opinion has no value just because I don't have X dives. It may be wrong , but posting it does have value.

Well said Darnold9999!

I have to wonder if all4scuba05 would puke in his regulator if he saw my DW and I holding hands while we dive. And we don't bump into each other! BTW, that comes under the heading of "good natured ribbing," so don't get upset. I do understand the concept you were trying to convey before you got lambasted. (Plan your dive, and dive your plan? Maintain a "safe" distance?)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Don't forget greatful that some people just know more than everyone else.

Honestly ... I am not trying to be overly critical. I think if any of us were to go back and read something we posted in here two years after we posted it, we'd be surprised how much our perspective has changed due to the additional experience we've accrued in the interrim.

I think I'm generally pretty open to what newer divers have to say. Sometimes I learn from them. Most times I simply enjoy the "fresh" perspective they bring to the conversation.

Take my words as cautionary ... nothing more than that was intended ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[merlin7896]

After 600 dives, mostly in the NE, I must say I still have trouble with diver on diver contact sometimes. Particuarly on guided drift dives in tropical marine parks, where 6or more divers get in the water, everyone tries to stay in contact with the DM, and everyone wants to look at things in the same general area, it someimtes ends up as bumper divers. I don't know if its because I am a poor diver, the other people in the water are poor divers, or if its just too many bodies in a confined space. Mostly I think its down to stacking, blind spots and people not used to diving together. Its annoying sometimes, especially when someone swims overhead and clobbers you with a dangling console or a fin tip to the head. You would think that after they make contact the first time they would ascend a few feet before trying to swim again.

But, as I said, its all annoying, I don't think I have ever felt put in danger in this situation, the most important thing to me was to not be the offender if at all possible. If I am the one to get bumped, I remember why I am down there, to enjoy my dive, and not concentrate on what others are doing wrong.

have fun, dive safe, keep learning.

 

[billtodive]

My first guided ocean dive was a group of about 6 or 7 following the guide.
The first time he pointed in a hole, it looked like someone pulled the sink stopper,
we all went flowing down.....off course most of us were too excited to realize we would need to stop at some point. By the end of the dive, only 1 diver still stuck that close. I wish I would have thought of that analogy on the boat after the dive.

 

[caseybird]

well excuse me for not proofreading...enjoy

a) There are no excuses in Scuba.
b) There is no crying on scubaBoard.
c) There is always someone with more dives than you.
d) What is so freakin' hard about putting out your hand and gently holding a diver away. Share the freakin' ocean without fussing. It's not all about you.

 

[pir8]

a) There are no excuses in Scuba.
b) There is no crying on scubaBoard.
c) There is always someone with more dives than you.
d) What is so freakin' hard about putting out your hand and gently holding a diver away. Share the freakin' ocean without fussing. It's not all about you.

Nicely said

 

[Jim Ernst]

My first guided ocean dive was a group of about 6 or 7 following the guide.
The first time he pointed in a hole, it looked like someone pulled the sink stopper,
we all went flowing down.....off course most of us were too excited to realize we would need to stop at some point. By the end of the dive, only 1 diver still stuck that close. I wish I would have thought of that analogy on the boat after the dive.

this i found funny, i have been there and done that!!! love it , great story!!!