Northern soul or "idiot's dream?"

[Dea]

Doubtlessly, though I think I'd rather dive Lake Baikal first....

Very admirable goal. To dive that lake must be a very unique experience.

Though you might be in for a rougher ride than on an icebreaker.
That is not a rich area and hospitality services are not for a delicate Western traveler's psychie.
It would probably be better for a first time visitor to Russia to start with Moscow and St. Petersburg.
I've already been to Moscow, so now I am thinking of Trans-Siberian railroad. I'll be in China by the middle of winter, so it seems like a possibility. Though Bajkal will of course be frozen. But Siberia in December would I assume be along the lines of extreme adventures too.

Gotta run now to the Korean Embassy to pick up my visa. Will be back in an hour.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Originally posted by Dea
As long as you don't charter a nuclear submarine, you should be quite safe.

Is that because the worst designers, materials and facilities were used to build front line Russian attack subs while the really good engineers and materials were used to build icebreakers?

If you haven't been to Korea, you are in for a treat. I've been there on business and loved it.

I note that we haven't actually discussed the original question, ice diving, in several posts. It is not an "idiot's dream" Some of my most pleasant memories of my service time involve the time I spent in Arctic training in Alaska and Canada. The beauty cannot be described.

 

[jrtonkin]

Somebody was asking about depths and ice-thicknesses in the arctic ocean earlier in this thread; Since I'm having a slow day at work.... Here's what I found.

In the region that the mad-dog expeditions group goes to, the ocean reaches a depth of about 200m (700'). However, since this is in the middle of the archipeligo, they could presumably pick any depth desired, simply by moving in towards land, or out into the inter-island channels.

Pack ice in this area tends to be about 2-4m (5-12') thick, although pressure-ridging can make mounds that extent 5m (18') in either up or down.

If you move north of the archipeligo, you move off the continental shelf, and into the Canada basin, where depths go down to 3000-4000m (10000-14000').

Running between eastern Russia and Greenland-ish is a ridge that divides the arctic ocean in half. This ridge comes up to within about 1200m (4000') of the surface. On the Russian side of the ridge, another ridge seperates that half of the arctic ocean into another two basins.

East of Finland, north of western Russia is the Kara sea; a large region of the arctic ocean where depths tend to max out around 70m (220'). This extends quite a ways out from shore, before dropping off into one of the Russia-side basins.

On the other side of Novye Zemlya (The big island sticking up from the middle of Russia, as an extension of the Aral Mountains), is some other sea (whose name I can't remember, and probably couldn't spell even if I could). Like the Kara sea, it's a vast shallow region, before decending in the high-north into the other Russia-side basin.

Ain't geography fun.

Jamie

 

[Dea]

Military equipment is often experimental. Who knows what was on Kursk and what they were doing. Militaries in general are not known for their honesty and openness in disclosing such things to the public.

Is that because the worst designers, materials and facilities were used to build front line Russian attack subs while the really good engineers and materials were used to build icebreakers?

Hmm, by that logic should we assume that the worst designers and materials and facilities were used to build American space shuttles while all the good engineers and materials were busy with something else? That all NASA technology is unreliable because Challenger blew up?

Besides, the parallel between such civilian engineering and military arms race escapes me.
At the risk of sounding unpatriotic, I would take a Mercedes over Ford anytime, even despite the fact that American submarines are probably much better than the German ones.

Vast majority of Russia's coastline is on the level of Alaska, so naturally the country has more icebreakers than any other. To them these conditions are routine and the icebreakers are a product of natural evolution under such circumstances.

 

[Dea]

Jamie, geography is fun! Especially when learned on your own two feet/fins.

P.S. I love Canada! Visited twice and each time wanted to move there. Hope to wonder it aimelessly for months some day

Northeastwreck, not just Korea. I'll be traveling for 4 months all over Asia. (and on Asian airlines-- not NASA's. imagine the horror. )

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by Dea
I'll be traveling for 4 months all over Asia. (and on Asian airlines-- not NASA's. imagine the horror. )

indeed for certain Asian carriers, for certain others. Best of luck with whichever you're on.

Keeping on topic, is there any interesting diving where you're going?

 

[metridium]

Jamie, thanks for the information! That's what I was wondering about. Still think I'll pass on diving the off-shore arctic, though.

Antarctica...that's another matter altogether.

 

[Dea]

I asked around in the Asia forum and they gave me some advice. So maybe I'll get to dive in Thailand and Phillipines. And I know for sure I get one leisure day in Vietnam in Nga Trang. So I think I will get to dive somewhere on the trip.
I'll be near water very often, but not near resorts. So my main concern is water quality-- considering the size of Asian population near major cities...

I bet the water is crystal clear in Antarctica. *sigh*

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by Dea

It would probably be better for a first time visitor to Russia to start with Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Hmmm...for some reason I don't think the diving's very remarkable around there.

How about off Kamchatka? Should be like diving Alaska, but warmer, I'd think. Ooh, and think of all the delicious salmon for dinner!

 

[Dea]

Baikal is unique. Deepest, purest, oldest, biggest lake in the world, so it is certainly on the list of life goals.

But how did you come up with Kamchatka? what's there? I never heard anything about Kamchatka diving.