O2 T and K bottle questions

[TSwain]

Sorry for all the questions but here goes!
I am looking to get 2 T or K bottles for O2. What is the cost of new vs. used, and what is the working pressure?
I have a chance to get 2 used Ks (I think they are Ks due to their height, is there any other way to tell what they are? They are out of Hydro, but like new, and only on the original hydro.
Also what does it cost to have a used one Hydroed and O2 cleaned?
I also have 2 out of a bank system that are 2400psi and have 540 valves can these be converted to O2 tanks by just having them O2 cleaned and do they have to be painted green?
Thanks for any help you can give me!
Todd

 

[KevinNM]

Don't people normally just rent them from their gas supplier?

 

[2airishuman]

I use O2 for welding.

Neither of my local gas suppliers like to deal with "owned" cylinders. They will do so grudgingly on an exchange basis but will charge an annual maintenance fee when doing so. It is customary to lease cylinders.

CGA 540 is customary for oxygen. Why would you change it? 2400 PSI is also customary for bulk fills, at least where I am.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Sorry for all the questions but here goes!
I am looking to get 2 T or K bottles for O2. What is the cost of new vs. used, and what is the working pressure?
I have a chance to get 2 used Ks (I think they are Ks due to their height, is there any other way to tell what they are? They are out of Hydro, but like new, and only on the original hydro.
Also what does it cost to have a used one Hydroed and O2 cleaned?
I also have 2 out of a bank system that are 2400psi and have 540 valves can these be converted to O2 tanks by just having them O2 cleaned and do they have to be painted green?
Thanks for any help you can give me!
Todd

"T" and "K" are for many suppliers obsolete, and can vary depending on supplier.

Most have moved to actual cuft capacity. As an added entertainment the capacity of the exact same cylinder will vary depending on the gas it is filled with, due to variations in compressibility.

I'd suggest speaking with a few gas suppliers, start with the guys a bit beyond your preferred radius and let them educate you about the polices, bottle choices, customer owned bottles etc. *before* you walk into the supplier you actually hope to use. 1/2 the battle is not sounding like a newb.

Be careful about buying bottles from private parties. If these were actually rental tanks many suppliers will "claim" the tanks when you try to get them filled. The compressed gas business has seen significant contraction and many smaller companies were acquired by bigger firms. That means tanks with a neck ring that reads "XX Oxygen Service" may look like nobody currently rents that name, but "YY Gas" may have bought up XX and claim your cylinders. Clean neck rings, i.e. no embossed name are a safe bet, and most, but not all suppliers will fill them.

The compressed gas business is full of magical pricing, policies on a whim, and some pretty odd characters.

Keep in mind that many gas vendors make more on tank rental than they do on the gas. The small local welding shop may only need a tank or two of Argon a year, but they pay the "demurrage" every month. Demurrage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good luck,

Tobin

 

[fdarden]

To add to the frustration, I am assuming you will be purchasing "ABO" (Aviators Breathing Oxygen") as opposed to industrial O2. This adds additional complication when owning your own cylinders. I have not found a gas supplier that could/would supply ABO into a personal cylinder. They may exist, but I have yet to find one. My supplier will refill industrial O2 cylinders, but as others have pointed out you have to buy the tank from them, and enroll in a "swap" program. My supplier indicated that he could work out a deal with me where I own two ABO tanks, and swap one at a time. I just do not use enough O2 to justify that, but you might, so it is worth it to ask around and understand what your options truly are.

The supplier I deal with fills all their own industrial O2, but has ABO brought in pre-filled. I think the best thing to do is pick your supplier, and then discuss with them your options for tank leases/ownership.

I buy most of my bottles off Craigslist typically, but I store Trimix in them, not O2. There is also a seller on eBay that sells all sorts of industrial cylinders which are brand new typically.

 

[Wookie]

I have access to a ton (literally a ton) of 2640 PSI 230 cubic foot oxygen cylinders. $100 out of hydro, $150 in hydro. The local gas house will not fill them with ABO, but I have my own booster, so I transfer ABO at my whimsy. Saves a lot on cylinder rental at $10 a month, but hydro time kills me. Anyone needs some, give a holler.

 

[2airishuman]

I'd suggest speaking with a few gas suppliers, start with the guys a bit beyond your preferred radius and let them educate you about the polices, bottle choices, customer owned bottles etc. *before* you walk into the supplier you actually hope to use. 1/2 the battle is not sounding like a newb.

This is good advice.

Be careful about buying bottles from private parties. If these were actually rental tanks many suppliers will "claim" the tanks when you try to get them filled. The compressed gas business has seen significant contraction and many smaller companies were acquired by bigger firms. That means tanks with a neck ring that reads "XX Oxygen Service" may look like nobody currently rents that name, but "YY Gas" may have bought up XX and claim your cylinders. Clean neck rings, i.e. no embossed name are a safe bet, and most, but not all suppliers will fill them.

What Tobin says is true. Gas suppliers are often capricious about bottle ownership. If you have a bottle that is legitimately yours -- you bought and paid for it from someone who owned it -- it may be in your best interest to grind off the embossed name of the gas company that formerly owned it from the neck ring. This should be done with care and on an empty cylinder.

The compressed gas business is full of magical pricing, policies on a whim, and some pretty odd characters.

I will add to this that, as a general rule, they don't like small customers, which is pretty much everyone that doesn't get multiple bottles per month. For the large gas suppliers, the money is made on hospitals and large industrial consumers.

 

[cool_hardware52]

To add a bit, if you are offered "customer owned cylinders" that have embossed neck rings you can first check with the various local suppliers to see if they will fill / exchange these, and you may learn if they might claim them. The second part is a little more tricky. Let's say you have tanks that read "M&L Gases" and you call TJ Oxygen and ask f they will fill them. They may say yes we will, and then claim them when you arrive. OTOH if you survey the other suppliers you may find they respond by saying M&L is now handled by TJ. That's a huge clue about who you may want to avoid.

Tobin

 

[Wookie]

To add a bit, if you are offered "customer owned cylinders" that have embossed neck rings you can first check with the various local suppliers to see if they will fill / exchange these, and you may learn if they might claim them. The second part is a little more tricky. Let's say you have tanks that read "M&L Gases" and you call TJ Oxygen and ask f they will fill them. They may say yes we will, and then claim them when you arrive. OTOH if you survey the other suppliers you may find they respond by saying M&L is now handled by TJ. That's a huge clue about who you may want to avoid.

Tobin

I, however, have been the luckiest man on the planet when it comes to ABO T cylinders. I bought a bunch of them private sale, and they all had someone whom I had never heard of's neck rings on them. I took them into Airgas and they claimed them. I was a touch miffed until they said that they would give me credit on them, now, I don't pay monthly rental AND I don't hydro them. I have 12 ABO cylinders that I don't have to pay for. All I have to remember to do is not let my inventory go below 12. If I take them back and the main office sees a negative inventory, I get dinged and lose my cylinders.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I, however, have been the luckiest man on the planet when it comes to ABO T cylinders. I bought a bunch of them private sale, and they all had someone whom I had never heard of's neck rings on them. I took them into Airgas and they claimed them. I was a touch miffed until they said that they would give me credit on them, now, I don't pay monthly rental AND I don't hydro them. I have 12 ABO cylinders that I don't have to pay for. All I have to remember to do is not let my inventory go below 12. If I take them back and the main office sees a negative inventory, I get dinged and lose my cylinders.

I've had that happen too. Sometimes when the tanks are "claimed" that's it, sometimes they will let you rotate cylinders. I think it has to do with the volume of gas you buy. In my case buying commercial qty's of welding / shielding gases and ABO (My dad had a plane for many years) made sourcing Scuba gases waay easier. I've had friends and acquaintances that purchased Welding tanks at auctions only to encounter huge grief trying to get them filled. As others have noted the Oxy acetylene set sitting in somebody's garage that gets filled once a decade is not at the top of the list for most gas houses.

Tobin