Objective fin reviews?

[Susanne]

"Life is just a series of approximations!" The perfect test of fins doesn't exist, but we've at least gotten some good, relatively-objective information.

I myself have now tested over 70 different brands/models of fins over the past several years,........

The only relatively-consistent finding is that full-foot fins in general are better than open-heel fins, but full-foot fins are limited to use where you don't need to wear boots, such as in boat diving in warm water.......
DSAO -- with good fins
Jim Grier

Wow! 70 models/brands of diving fins and to my knowledge the only time you've tried Force Fins were when prompted by our dealer in your area - Gary at Tri State Diving.

I have read a lot of your posts as well as your test protocol and results. Although written in a very professional scientific style, I believe that there is a lot of bias hidden in your studies as well as within your interpretations. JMHO

I have not had a chance to look back and its been sometime since they were posted,...... Do you understand why you are getting better results with full foot fins than those with open heels? When wearing a full foot fin more of the power leverages from the heel, with less power generating from the front of the foot as is the case with most open heel fins, at least those that you have thoroughly tested.

Force Fins of all blade configurations are made with an open toe pocket that takes this transfer of load a step further, which adds to their ease of use and efficiency.

Snorkeling (full foot) fins also tend to be made of lighter weight materials than most open heel fins - weight on extremities and their relationship to efficiency, higher oxygen absorption rates relative to lactic acid build up - is supported by some fin research conducted by ICAR a number of years ago.

Had you put the time into understanding Force Fins - all models - that you have in other product lines, you would find the results most surprising and your attitude would change, but then if you were part of the original Scuba Lab team, I suppose there would be some bad blood from our taking it to the mat at the same time you were working with them.

Here are the facts that the article cited before are based upon: Bob Evans Designs, Inc. vs. Rodale Press, Inc.

 

[Lepomis]

Wow! 70 models/brands of diving fins and to my knowledge the only time you've tried Force Fins were when prompted by our dealer in your area - Gary at Tri State Diving.

Thanks for your input, Susanne.

A number of things for the record, however, ...

I started testing Force Fins using a pair that I borrowed from another person before I borrowed any from Gary or asked him to become involved with my fin testing. It was not at Gary's prompting. I was aware of Force Fins and they were one of the kinds I wanted to test almost from the start. Gary, incidentally, is a good friend of mine. He is the one mentioned in my reports who eventually helped me test Force Fins side by side with me, at my request, to help me understand them better.

I myself have owned a couple pairs of Force Fins. I am probably one of the relatively few divers familiar with Force Fins who is also relatively in the middle regarding them. I am neither strongly in favor of them nor strongly against them. They are good fins but, for me, not the top ones in my experience and choice. In addition to Gary, I have several other dive buddies who prefer Force Fins. I have absolutely nothing against them, including I don't think I'm biased against them.

Most of the many fins that I've tested have gotten less attention from me than Force Fins. Some fins I've tested more frequently, such as the regular Jets, and I use the Apollo bio-fin pros as my standard for comparison, to keep a constant in the equation and because they have proven so well for me. But I didn't slight Force Fins because of a bias or anything. In fact, I've been quite curious about and interested in them. They simply haven't performed the best for me in my tests.

Finally, I don't think I picked up any bias against Force Fins by being a member of the Scuba Lab fin-testing team. I don't recall our ever discussing Force Fins during our Scuba Lab fin-testing work. We had a lot of tests to run, a lot of work to do, and we had our hands (and heads and discussions) busy with the work at hand. The only fins that we ever really talked about (after the tests were completed) were a few of the truly bad fins, some of which should never have been on the market. Some were so bad that they seriously hurt all of our legs. One of the worst pairs of fins was so bad that, after we suffered through the required tests with them, we took them off and carried them back to the starting point while swimming with our hands and arms! I won't name any names of really bad fins from the Scuba Lab tests. In my own independent tests I have been pretty critical, based on my personal results, of some of the fins that haven't done so well for me; I have already named them in my own reports. I will again emphasize that I do not consider Force Fins to be among the bad fins. They are among the good fins, just not the top ones in my personal experience and opinion. There are also many other good fins that we haven't mentioned here.

Jim Grier

 

[Thalassamania]

There has never, as far as I know, been any objective fin reviews. An objective study would be fairly easy to do, and would require little more than a number of oxygen rebreathers and test subjects, but it would be very time consuming ... especially in terms of test subject time.

 

[mdb]

It is interesting to see folks like the calm and unbiased Jim Grier, Thal, SeaRat, and other divers, are not caught up in any hype. They are simply reporting their findings based on extensive experience.

 

[David Wilson]

Sometimes a historical perspective can help. There's a 1957 Naval Experimental Diving Unit report entitled "Comparative Evaluation of Swim Fins" at
http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD780665
I particularly like the way this document doesn't just highlight the scientific "efficiency" aspects of fin design, which might be objectively determined, but also the importance of comfort, which is a very subjective criterion. Fin design is both a science and an art. Indeed: "If both comfort and efficiency could not be provided, comfort might be considered more vital". This over-half-a century-old report doesn't come down in favour of a single fin model or design. We're all individuals when it comes to choosing the best fins for our own use, and that's the way it is, despite the "lobby groups" which always appear in any discussion of what constitutes the "optimum fin".

 

[Akimbo]

There has never, as far as I know, been any objective fin reviews. An objective study would be fairly easy to do, and would require little more than a number of oxygen rebreathers and test subjects, but it would be very time consuming ... especially in terms of test subject time.

Quantitative tests are the easy part. What's the test criteria?

• Is it the same for a Navy SEAL and a 98 Lb female?
• Is the objective maximum speed for 30 seconds or best time across the English Channel?
• Does it have to be comfortable on 10% or 98% of the adult population?
• Straight line or slalom course?
• What about reliability and simplicity?
• Average oxygen consumption over 3 or 360 minutes at 0.1 or 2.5 MPH?
• Do all fins have to be the same size for comparable data or does anything go?
• Does swimming style preference matter or are mono fins included?
• Does the test subject have to be in a drysuit and doubles or bathing suit breathing off hoses in a lab tank?
• What temperature water?
• Wetsuit socks, rock boots, or barefoot?
• Must subjects be blind folded and fins put on them by technicians?
• Does every color have to be tested since material performance can be effected?
• Optional fin straps?
• New condition or banged around?
• What is a meaningful sample? Five or five hundred?
• Do we need a study to determine how many days the test needs to be repeated?
• What about shoe size and width?

Personal experience and test data have reinforced my belief that maximum speed is of marginal importance. Oxygen consumption is very important to serious freedivers and apneists, but not many of us are willing to wear 3' long fins diving wreaks.

In the end, sales statistics may be the most useful data. It might be cheaper to include a postage paid card with every pair of fins surveying relevant factors. Dive shops should have a special rental rate for the three top sellers and let customers take them for a test dive. It is sort of like trying to calculate neutral buoyancy. Just get in the pool and adjust your weights.

My take from the ScubaLab tests in the May 2010 issue is there's very little difference in performance between any of them. The AquaLung Slingshot was #2, which I have been diving for about a year. I am going back to Jet Fins that has been an old friend since 1968. That is not an endorsement for Jet Fins or derision of Slingshots — just an observation of personal comfort.