Observations during gf's cert. class

[fab50diver]

This is very true. The problem is that these exceptional instructors are really just swimming against the current. You can't do it forever. If the industry wants you to adjust your teaching then eventually you will. If for no other reason than simple economics. You can't compete with the 5 star dive shop down the street that offers cert. for $100 less and one fewer day of class.

I couldn't imagine if a shop today tried to make students go through what my uncle did when he was certified back in the early 80's. Among other things, they'd probably get sued. haha

There are two PADI dive shops in North Louisiana who have not dumbed-down the material for OW or Enriched Air Courses. I've taken courses from both and feel that, if anything, we learned much more than is currently required. We used only gauges and tables on our OW dives and I have two sets of the RDP and EAN tables and know how to use them.

 

[fjpatrum]

I finished PADI OW in April/May 2010 and we had AL80s for everyone in the pool. We also used the eRDP extensively and had a little time going over the tables as well. No one was specifically taught anything about a computer unless they brought their own because the shop/instructors believed there are just too many options (for computers) to try and teach computers in the course.

PADI's book is definitely not the latest and greatest out there, but I don't remember my copy saying anything about front inflate BCs. I'll have to double check... I do know I bought some used gear that came with a book from about 10 years ago and they are different. Not hugely different, but there are definite differences. As to the content changing, why would you want it to change? Update info on BCs and "equipment" perhaps, but everything else should be the same. I don't think dive theory has really changed much over the years, though I could be wrong about that.

Our class size was 10 students with 2 instructors and 2 divemasters.

It's been said before and will probably be repeated ad nauseum, not all classes are the same. Choose the instructor, not the price.

 

[PittCaleb]

I gotta chime in - I was certified through SSI just a couple weeks ago and my instructor was incredible. We had 8 students and 1 instructor and most of the time a divemaster during class sessions and on the checkout weekend, we had 4 people on day 1 and 2 on day 2 when people were more comfortable.

To put my 2c in on the tables vs computers debate. I am an engineer - I wanted to learn and fully UNDERSTAND the tables. SSI does not teach them, however our instructor did teach them - they're in an appendix. Easy and helps me understand what's going on. That said, I purchased a computer before class ended because I knew I would want one. Having made now 8 dives (4 class, 4 fun) I wish I splurged and got an air integrated one - the engineer in me wants to know exactly how much air I have and based on my consumption, how much remains.

Back to the tables vs computer - Our first dive of 3 the weekend after my certification - went down to 63' for 63 minutes. Based on the tables, we're into a compression dive already and the rest of my day is shot - pack up and go home. However, as you know, we hit 63' for but a second and weren't below 50' for too much longer (few minutes at a wreck in a quarry). While at the wreck site, I still had 45 minutes according to my NDL on the computer.

We surfaced for less than an hour and went right back down to 50' on the next dive, and on a third a little after that. If I were dive tables only... well, this is why today for most agencies, the tables are next to worthless if students will be doing computers. And mine has a "plan" mode, so prior to our next dives, I was able to guestimate how much time I could spend at depth. This was especially helpful as with the tables, I was already blacked out for the day.

FYI, this is my first post to ScubaBoard, consider it my introduction

Cheers,
PittCaleb

 

[cocoajoe]

I'm not saying they need to understand how RGBM or Buhlmann gets the numbers it comes up with. It's like anything else, you don't need to know the exact mathematics and theory to understand the overall concept. I can explain the key points of my field of research in half an hour, or I can give you a semester long course on how exactly you arrive at those results. Just a little understanding can go a long way. But if you just strap a computer on their wrist and tell them don't let this number go to 0 then the computer could be using astrology for all they know.

I quite agree with understanding the overall concept. When I certified, the instructor briefly went over what the text had to say about partial pressures. I didn't understand and asked the instructor. After his explanation, I still didn't get it. I googled it and decided that barring a brush up course in algebra and physics, I would never understand it.

A few months passed and low and behold, Dive Training magazine (Aug 2009 Oxtox)has a easy to understand article. Daltons law was mentioned but no indecipherable formulas....just the basics of how it works.

 

[boattech]

I think there pooping these divers out like little turds and it scares the hell out of me. i just got 5 kids and my wife cert in open water and it was literally a joke. they need more time in class and alot more in the pool and open water. thank god i was watching over them(loose weight belts,tank traps, no compasses,half with computers half without. instructors and dive masters are supposed to mention these things and help them do it right...not me. its really sad and says alot about the world we live in now. advanced class here we come x 6....yay

 

[dinasaurus]

For the record, I just finished my OW classes (doing my checkout dives this weekend), and we ONLY learned the tables. We spent a solid 2 hours on example scenarios, and learned how the tables work pretty comprehensively.

However, we spent zero time on dive computers. To be honest, I'm not even sure how to use one, as I haven't seen one yet.

Also, I'm a 5 foot Zero female, and I dove on a full-sized tank. It was a bit cumbersome to put on and remove my weight belt, but otherwise I didn't have a problem with it.

As far as class size, we had 7 students (including one 10 year old), and one instructor. It admittedly was very cramped in the pool, but he did his best to give each of us individual attention and make sure we had done each of the skills appropriately. That being said, in advance of my checkout dive this weekend, I am very nervous, and do wish I had one more day to go over some of the skills before jumping into the drink. I'm not even done with my certification yet, but I can promise you I'll be taking a refresher course before my Australia trip this March.

 

[boattech]

Ask lots of questions,be the sponge, if your not comfortable say something, its there job to make you understand, nervous is normal,youll be fine im sure. i am conviced that its not the dive school but the instructor- theres great one and not so great ones.

 

[tyesai]

I learned to understand the tables myself, we didn't even talk about them. I've been learning that my training was half ass at best, but I'm getting a better grasp of things, good thing I'm a little obsessive.

But what is bad, and someone else I believe already mentioned this, I didn't know it was half assed.

 

[RedCash02]

I gotta chime in - I was certified through SSI just a couple weeks ago and my instructor was incredible. We had 8 students and 1 instructor and most of the time a divemaster during class sessions and on the checkout weekend, we had 4 people on day 1 and 2 on day 2 when people were more comfortable.

To put my 2c in on the tables vs computers debate. I am an engineer - I wanted to learn and fully UNDERSTAND the tables. SSI does not teach them, however our instructor did teach them - they're in an appendix. Easy and helps me understand what's going on. That said, I purchased a computer before class ended because I knew I would want one. Having made now 8 dives (4 class, 4 fun) I wish I splurged and got an air integrated one - the engineer in me wants to know exactly how much air I have and based on my consumption, how much remains.

Back to the tables vs computer - Our first dive of 3 the weekend after my certification - went down to 63' for 63 minutes. Based on the tables, we're into a compression dive already and the rest of my day is shot - pack up and go home. However, as you know, we hit 63' for but a second and weren't below 50' for too much longer (few minutes at a wreck in a quarry). While at the wreck site, I still had 45 minutes according to my NDL on the computer.

We surfaced for less than an hour and went right back down to 50' on the next dive, and on a third a little after that. If I were dive tables only... well, this is why today for most agencies, the tables are next to worthless if students will be doing computers. And mine has a "plan" mode, so prior to our next dives, I was able to guestimate how much time I could spend at depth. This was especially helpful as with the tables, I was already blacked out for the day.

FYI, this is my first post to ScubaBoard, consider it my introduction

Cheers,
PittCaleb

Welcome to SB, fellow engineer! *high five*

I guess I was a little harsh on the computers. I don't mind them teaching the basic functions that every dive computer can do, but I want that to be in addition to teaching the tables not instead of.

AI computers are really cool for recreational diving. I don't know much about them, but I've always been curious if they tell you when you should start your ascent based on having a certain amount of reserve gas. Otherwise just seeing a countdown of how many minutes of gas you have left doesn't seem as useful to me. A lot of people here on SB like 'rock bottom' calculations for when to turn and ascend. You should take a look at them if you haven't seen them already. You sometimes have to bend those rules, though. For example, they recommend no deeper than 77ft on an Al 80, but in the keys all operators are doing 100+ ft wrecks on them.

 

[lowtech]

AI computers are really cool for recreational diving. I don't know much about them, but I've always been curious if they tell you when you should start your ascent based on having a certain amount of reserve gas. Otherwise just seeing a countdown of how many minutes of gas you have left doesn't seem as useful to me. A lot of people here on SB like 'rock bottom' calculations for when to turn and ascend. You should take a look at them if you haven't seen them already. You sometimes have to bend those rules, though. For example, they recommend no deeper than 77ft on an Al 80, but in the keys all operators are doing 100+ ft wrecks on them.

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm curious on where the "no deeper than 77ft" comes from.