Orange Grove fatality?
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not much, what little info we have is on Cave Diver Forum, and what you posted is about all that we have that's public at this point
went to LDS yesterday and heard about this. 2nd hand info was that intro diver was diving with full cave diver, full cave diver reports trouble upon exiting, response which turned out to be recovery, again second hand was that diver had cave gear,air in both tanks, one tank valved closed and perished 700' in.
wgw04024
Contributor
What does 'intro cave diver' mean exactly? Is that like a discover scuba session but in a cave or is that the first class in a cave diving curriculum?
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it's the first "real" class in cave diving if you consider cavern to be like an intro-to-tech that is conducted in the overhead. You have fairly strict limitations in what you can do while an intro diver. No navigational decisions *so limited to straight linear penetration in the main tunnel*, diving to sixths of your gas reserves instead of thirds, etc.
Well....I'd regard Cavern class as the first "real" cave class as that is where nearly all the basic skills are taught.
Intro to Cave and Basic Cave are the next step respectively for the NACD and NSS-CDS certification organizations.
Intro expands those Cavern skills into actual practice diving beyond the cavern zone. The certification limits are designed to limit depth and penetration, with the understanding that an Intro / Basic diver will have less distance to exit and more time and gas available to address any problem that might develop on the dive. Similarly, the restriction to no jumps, gaps, tees or other navigational decisions also reduces the issues an Intro diver would have to address on exit.
"Cave" and "Full Cave" are the next steps in the NACD and NSS-CDS progression and this certification involves making jumps, gaps and navigating tees to complete circuits and traverses, and it involves, much longer dives to thirds or close to thirds for gas planning, and in N FL usually involves decompression.
This can be broken into two steps, with the diver completing an Apprentice level, which is a level, not a permanent certification, that allows limited navigation while the diver builds more experience, before coming back to complete the Cave or Full Cave certification.
Most of the courses beyond that (Cave DPV, stage diving, trimix, etc) usually don't occur until the diver has completed at least 100 cave dives at the Cave/Full Cave level.
Intro to Cave and Basic Cave are the next step respectively for the NACD and NSS-CDS certification organizations.
Intro expands those Cavern skills into actual practice diving beyond the cavern zone. The certification limits are designed to limit depth and penetration, with the understanding that an Intro / Basic diver will have less distance to exit and more time and gas available to address any problem that might develop on the dive. Similarly, the restriction to no jumps, gaps, tees or other navigational decisions also reduces the issues an Intro diver would have to address on exit.
"Cave" and "Full Cave" are the next steps in the NACD and NSS-CDS progression and this certification involves making jumps, gaps and navigating tees to complete circuits and traverses, and it involves, much longer dives to thirds or close to thirds for gas planning, and in N FL usually involves decompression.
This can be broken into two steps, with the diver completing an Apprentice level, which is a level, not a permanent certification, that allows limited navigation while the diver builds more experience, before coming back to complete the Cave or Full Cave certification.
Most of the courses beyond that (Cave DPV, stage diving, trimix, etc) usually don't occur until the diver has completed at least 100 cave dives at the Cave/Full Cave level.
My understanding is that the divers were Intro level, with at least one of them being newly minted. They didn't run a reel from open water in Orange Grove, then made a blind jump to the distance tunnel - which starts out fairly large, but gets smaller the farther up you go, and tends to be pretty silty and isn't real forgiving of poor technique.
I was also advised that the divers in question apparently silted out the passage, with one diver exiting successfully. The other diver reportedly had no gas in one tank and 2200 psi in the other - but that tank valve was off. It's likely that some degree of panic was present.
That;s different than the description above, although I also heard he was recovered about 700' from the exit, which is about 150' on the exit side of the jump to the distance tunnel.
For an Intro level diver, making a jump (or any other navigational decision) would be a standards violation.
I am not aware of whether the diver took his Intro course in sidemount configuration or not. If not, the diver would have also then been diving in a configuration that he had not been trained to use in a cave.
I was also advised that the divers in question apparently silted out the passage, with one diver exiting successfully. The other diver reportedly had no gas in one tank and 2200 psi in the other - but that tank valve was off. It's likely that some degree of panic was present.
That;s different than the description above, although I also heard he was recovered about 700' from the exit, which is about 150' on the exit side of the jump to the distance tunnel.
For an Intro level diver, making a jump (or any other navigational decision) would be a standards violation.
I am not aware of whether the diver took his Intro course in sidemount configuration or not. If not, the diver would have also then been diving in a configuration that he had not been trained to use in a cave.
Caveeagle
Contributor
FWIW, I am hearing speculation and information that tends to conflict with some accounts I have heard that are very close to this. I doubt we will see a full accident investigation, but please try not to perpetuate 2nd and 3rd hand accounts that are not truly reliable.
Totally agree that Cavern is the most intense part of cave diving where the fundamentals and skills are presented. I find it strange that open water divers can go in the overhead at many sites in Florida with no cavern skill set or equipment. However the state park system does not allow OW divers in the overhead. That being said when you go into a cave and or a cavern you must be squared away. Being intro to cave allows you only begin this process. It is often the first level at which two regulators are required. Learning how to use redundant gear for the first time without the benefit of an instructor should definitely not happen in a cave!
best way to nip that in the bud is post information and source.
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