PADI Dive Master Course

[MikeFerrara]

Se7en,

In theory all instructors have been trained to present the course material. However, not all have the experience and the pool of knowlege required to elaborate on the material. It sounds like your instructor may be one of those. If I were you I would require that the instructor explain things to your satisfaction (within reason) There are sources he/she can tap for help.

For many people learning to DM or teach selling is not of interest. If you just want the education to make you a better buddy you truely don't needd it. For a diver wanting to DM or teach for a dive shop it is something you need to know. When teaching or divemastering you are a representative of the shop and you are at work. Selling equipment and continueing education is what dive shops do. It is not a bad thing. If done ethically it is a valuable service. If you truely can't buy in to the ideology being presented you are in the wrong class. Otherwise you should listen for a while then form your own ideas and do what you want.

When I teach I spend alot of time talking about continuing education. Do I do this to make money? Yes. But..I also do it because of the divers I have seen hauled off in ambulances. I do it because of the scary stories I hear of resort DM's leading people into wrecks (away from the lighted zone) at 100 ft without lines, lights or the proper training. I do it so my students will know better. I do it because of the number of divers who would make better tillers for the garden than divers. In general because of all the bad diving I see. I need for my instructors and DM's to be on the same page.

As of now diving is a hobby for you. You may be happier if it stays a hobby. Dive Master is a professional level. In PADI it requires membership. It is not a life long cert like OW or AOW. Once you take on diving as a proffession (even a part time one) you must learn to view it as a business.

 

[Se7en]

Guys
Thanks for the thoughts.
I think the problem is, as a few have suggested, that I'm not looking at diving as a profession, merely an involving hobby. I don't want to actively sell divers on further training or gear, just help out those who already ask for assistance and advice.

Therefore I have no demands of time or money on myself, and want to give the most appropriate assistance, not a ubiquitous answer.

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
Se7en,

If I were you I would require that the instructor explain things to your satisfaction (within reason) There are sources he/she can tap for help.

It's easier for me to grab another instructor if there is something I don't understand. It's more when I understand but don't agree that I want an intelligent debate, rather than acquiring facts.

For many people learning to DM or teach selling is not of interest. If you just want the education to make you a better buddy you truely don't needd it.

Not sure I explained, but I'm being put in the role of dive leader / instructor by other divers who are looking for support. Plus there are a few people who want me to teach them to dive. So I have no real interest in trying to sell to people, just in helping people who already want to do something. If I'm in that position, I'd like to make sure I do it right for anyone I help out.
I have no problem with people selling a solution (gear, training, services) which improves the clients diving - but I don't like it when selling rolls over into pressuring someone to pay for something they don't really need, just to make a buck.

When I teach I spend alot of time talking about continuing education. Do I do this to make money? Yes. But..I also do it because of the divers I have seen hauled off in ambulances. I do it because of the scary stories I hear of resort DM's leading people into wrecks (away from the lighted zone) at 100 ft without lines, lights or the proper training. I do it so my students will know better. I do it because of the number of divers who would make better tillers for the garden than divers.

Mike - I appreciate that you are trying to make safer, better divers, and applaud that.
But, if I may, a question: Do you teach fin pivots for boyancy control? If so, why does it surprise you that 'divers make better tillers'? Surely it would be better to teach divers something about correct trim, rather than encouraging vertical body positioning?
One of the things I have been taught to do in the DM course is change from booties and a steel tank, to rubber foot fins (neg boyant) and an ali tank so that I can do fin pivots. Why? I don't dive like that, and neither does any of the other instructors or DMs. So why teach OW students how to plow the sand?

Once you take on diving as a proffession (even a part time one) you must learn to view it as a business.

Ummm - why? I'm not doing it for the money - if I was, my time would be way better spent at my normal job. I'm doing it so I can help out friends and friends of friends who want to learn to dive, or learn to dive better.

I've just worked it out - I need to move to UK and join BSAC

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

Se7en,

I don't mean to debate you. Your reasons for aquireing dive master training are, I think, as good as any. The class, however, is designed to prepare you to dive master anyplace you want. If the course left out business aspects you might be less than prepared if you saught employment. As it is you may not make use of all the training.

And then one of my favorite subjects and least favorite skills to teach...the fin pivot. It isn't a bad way to introduce neutral buoyancy. It isn't the end , just a beginning. The skill lets a student feel themselves go from neg. to neutral in an easy to control position. I do make a point of telling students that if you are trimmed properly it takes work to pivot on fin tips. I also explain that the goal is to never touch the bottom again. An experienced instructor will see the intended purpose and use it for what it's worth. It's a learning tool nothing more.

I think you should engage your instructor in debate. If the instructor is prepared he will have no trouble supporting his position. If it is a distraction for the class then catch him/her some other time. It should not be an imposition. A good class is challanging for everyone, including the instructor.

 

[Se7en]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
Se7en,

I don't mean to debate you. Your reasons for aquireing dive master training are, I think, as good as any. The class, however, is designed to prepare you to dive master anyplace you want. If the course left out business aspects you might be less than prepared if you saught employment. As it is you may not make use of all the training.

Mike
Good point, and thanks for the advice.

As always, I guess there is the story, and how it's told. It sounds like you tell the story well to your students.

ciao
Mike

 

[SubMariner]

I've been following this thread for a bit. Mike has already put forth some good points. Now I guess I'll add my $0.02:

1) If you are not happy with the Instructor from whom you are taking the course, go elsewhere. There are plenty of us around who would jump at the chance to mentor a DIT that wants to be part of a team, not just a diversherpa who's only good a shlepping tanks.

You have specific goals in mind... so look for someone who will help you achieve them. Before you do anything, have a copy made of your DM file. If they ask, tell them this is so you can better gauge your progress & plug into internship training. Then ask good DMs or AIs who THEY trained under. Set up a set of questions & interview potential Instructors. Get references & follow up on them. Once you've decided who you'd like to train you, leave.

2) In PADI a divemaster is the first level of dive professional. That means not only being a member of the dive leadership team, but also being able to handle things on your own. It's not an easy road, but one well worth travelling if that is what you truly want to do.

3) Divemasters do NOT teach. Insured DMs may conduct Discover Snorkelling, Discover Local Diving (already certified divers) and similar programs, but they cannot teach. However, they are invaluable assistants in helping instructors educate divers. This is one of the reasons behind being able to perform skills to "demonstration quality".

Example: there is a confined water class with 4 students, an Instructor and a DM. One student is having problems with mask flood & clear. The Instructor asks the DM to work with the student while h/s continues with the other three. The DM, using h/h DEMONSTRATION QUALITY ability is able to break down the skill into its main components, and slowly demonstrate to the student exactly what is involved in completing mask flood & clear.
Once the DM sees the student has mastered it, h/s brings the student back to the Instructor for assessment. The Instructor then watches as the student performs the skill properly, and congratulates them on a job well done. Couldn't have done it without the DM!

4) Instructors are different... so are Course Directors. As an IDC Staff Instructor I've worked with several. Some of them ONLY ONCE. As a professional I won't comment upon what was posted about that particular CD except to say that it is unlikely that I would work with him or send any of my students to him.

5) Most of us Instruct because we love the sport. We have fun teaching. It's never been about the money. However, unless you understand the BUSINESS of diving, you will never understand how the system works. Likewise Continuing Education. If you don't grow as a diver & educator, then not only will you not be particularly marketable, but you will burn out. Pursue your interests!

~SubMariner~

 

[Friggincold]

If the divemaster can only watch and demonstrate skills, Why would he be the one to get the student having problems let the DM watch the 3 good ones and let the instructor teach the one having problems thats the instructors job to teach and correct problems not the divemaster.........Se7en forget the PADI Professional diemaster training....go take cave training the best training you can get. you'll never regret it. ..........Just my $.02
Friggincold

 

[SubMariner]

If the divemaster can only watch and demonstrate skills, Why would he be the one to get the student having problems let the DM watch the 3 good ones and let the instructor teach the one having problems thats the instructors job to teach and correct problems not the divemaster

Unfortunately, if we follow your scenario, then there are 4 people (3 students and a DM) sitting around doing nothing while the Instructor works with the student who is having the problem. You will then have 3 bored (and cold) students and one DM who is nothing more than a glorified babysitter. To me that doesn't sound like fun for the students or effective use of a certified assistant.

However, if we do it the way I described, then EVERYONE is doing something positive. And it is only a matter of minutes before the student who was experiencing the problem is back up to speed with the rest of his/her class.

~SubMariner~

 

[MikeFerrara]

SubMariner,

Good posts.

 

[Paul168341]

I second that!

 

[chaney]

I'm a title freak I guess. I plan on getting my DM in the future. Not because I want to teach but for the education. I trust my PADI instructors 100%, but thats because they have been in the business for many years (2nd generation). Plus I'll be a dive master.:mean: