PADI Emergency First Response Question

[PhilEllis]

Some states departments of revenue would DEMAND that it be broken down at the time of sale. Remember, dive store are independent business entities and as such, adopt policies that are supported by their state government/business plan/etc. Oh well.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

couple of points. Yes, you do need to be EFRI prior to becoming an instructor. I'm a PADI MI and I actually disagree with this. Those of you who have been through the courses will understand - it doesn't make a lot of sense. In my opinion, it should have been added as an extra day during the IDC or something. As for information - PADI announced it a year in advance and kept everybody very well informed thankyou!

EFR and PADI are separate companies with the same address - as is DSAT

EFR is a good course for basic CPR and first aid. PADI will honour any and all similar qualifications from other organisations where they are required.

EFRI has almost nothing to do with first aid - it's a course on how to teach the EFR course. If you're going to teach it, it makes sense to have done the actual EFR course prior to doing it, just so you know how it goes. It is not retarded in the slightest. EFR is a layperson's course, not an advanced medical degree. I knew a former paramedic who insisted on teaching tourniquet application during EFR classes. Without proper training, this can be fatal - we're not training doctors, we're training people with no foundation how to maybe help others in distress.

The breakdown for course materials / books / and courses as separate is more to do with dive shops than PADI. My place bundles the whole thing into one price. The reason they are offered as separate entities is actually a good thing for dive centres, so for example a person can buy a book in advance, complete the study before they go on holiday, just do the underwater stuff when they get there.

Safe diving,

C.

 

[Joefri]

On the PADI website it claims that the EFR Instructor rating is only required as a prerequisite for the Master Instructor rating not any other instructor rating.

Can those individuals that claim that this is required to become an instructor clarify what the actual policy states that was released?

 

[Arizona]

Its been in the Undersea Journal that all PADI DMs and higher get. Its been on my Course Directors website for quite a while. Obviously it offers a new segment of the market to PADI, but also allows instructors to teach Rescue without having to refer a potential customer if they do not have CPR. It also ensures all instructors have CPR/secondary care training making for better qualified instructors. If the instructor already has this training from another agency, it makes sense to go through EFR instructor training to ensure you are teaching the same standards if you offer the EFR course to your students. Its has presented non diving opportunities to me as well, as my job requires all employees have basic first aid/CPR training in which we offer EFR training.

 

[limbo]

Since early 2009, before you can become a PADI OWSI you need to be;

A current Emergency First Response Instructor.
OR
Show documentation that you are a current CPR and first aid instructor with another organization.
OR​

Attach your Emergency First Response Instructor application to your OWSI application

Instructor certification will not be processed until verification of CPR/First Aid Instructor rating is submitted to the appropriate PADI Office.​

Very straightforward and it means that if you're already holding a similar or equivalent First Air/CPR instructor rating, you don't need to become an EFRI. Also all PADI instructors certified as OWSI before the benchmark, are not required to become EFRI's, it just affects people that go through their IDC's as of early 2009.

PADI announced these changes well over a year ago in the usual forums for this, the PADI Training Bulletins. Enough time for providers of PADI IDC's to announce this.​

 

[still new]

Taking this to a logical but extreme example, making someone who is qualified as a paramedic or respiratory therapist or physician take the EFR class "just to make sure everyone knows the same skills". It would be like someone who passed the military diver course being required to sit through an OW class simply because they might not know the buddy system well enough or some other lame excuse. It speaks only to PADI's desire to squeeze every last dollar out of divers.

I am a Paramedic and also a Medic First Aid and an EFR Instructor. Taking an instructor's course dosen't teach you to become an instructor ,but, how the different systems work! Although basically they are all the same,but they all have their little quirks.
I had to take the DAN O2 provider course so I could become a Dive Emergency Specialist, it was explained to me that my 100+ pages of Respiratory Anatomy and Physiology (in a text book) wasn't as complete concerning Baro-Trauma and other respiratory complications as the two or three pages of bunk in their course book! Now that is over kill when it come to squeezing out the $$$.

 

[Crowley]

On the PADI website it claims that the EFR Instructor rating is only required as a prerequisite for the Master Instructor rating not any other instructor rating.

Can those individuals that claim that this is required to become an instructor clarify what the actual policy states that was released?

This is the actual text from the training update first quarter 2008 - I appreciate this is only available to people who are already certified as a PADI professional. The news, however, is well over a year old.

"Effective March 2009, all new PADI Instructors
will need to be current Emergency First Response
Instructors or hold another current first aid and
CPR instructor credential."

You are however correct in that the PADI website available to the general public does not reflect this, and I have e-mailed PADI to let them no, just in case nobody else has done so.

C.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

it was explained to me that my 100+ pages of Respiratory Anatomy and Physiology....

"Explained to you"? You mean they badgered you on the fact that their little sixth grade reading level book was more advanced than books that are frequently used in training physicians, etc. Wow....talk about hubris.

The problem you describe- or had "explained" to you- is with the respiratory textbook you were using (in other words, it's a problem with selection bias, the availability heuristic and the personal bias of the instructor(s) you had rather than an "actual" problem). Most of the pulmonary physiology textbooks (and given my background and interests, I've read most of the major texts on this topic out there) have more on barotrauma and the other complications we see in diving than anything I have seen in any of the dive training texts.

The reason for this is the fact that barotrauma is far more common in patients undergoing mechanical ventilation especially when using gas-driven oxygen delivery systems and bag-valve-masks in unskilled hands (the latter is such a major issue that one of the jokes a former pulmonologist colleague of mine is fond of repeating is that "The leading cause of pneumothorax outside of hospitals are overzealous EMTs named Bubba") than they have ever been in diving. The fact that the "patient" in the textbooks might not be described as a diver implicitly, the information is still there in most of the good books on the subject and often in more volume than you really need for clinical practice.

In fact, a high degree of what we know about barotrauma and taught in regards to dive emergencies was learned through efforts to improve outcomes in ICU patients and has been cross-applied to our hobby simply because of the volume, similar physiological problems, etc.

 

[rescue15]

wasn't as complete concerning Baro-Trauma and other respiratory complications as the two or three pages of bunk in their course book!

That's what I say...As a first responder, ( general term to describe all prehospital providers from advanced first aid to paramedic). you don't need to know all the complications - if somebody needs oxygen, you give it to them. Complications can be managed...death is permenant. This fact has been covered over and over again in my 20 + years as a paramedic.

I feel your pain...this is a recurrent problem in the dive industry...you always have to take the course no matter what your experience level is. I am in this argument in another thread too.

Steve