PADI Rescue Diver vs SSI Stress and Rescue

[Belzelbub]

I think I got more out of Rescue going into it as a more skilled diver.

Exactly. This should undoubtedly be the case. If not, then I would argue that the Rescue course was not done as well as it should be.

New divers are still figuring stuff out. That's normal. After some level of experience, some things will start to be second nature. I took mine with SSI where the course is titled Stress and Rescue. That first part can't be understated. The course should invoke some level of stress in the diver. I could see that bordering on panic for a new diver who might not yet have the basics down.

 

[inquis]

Another vote for having experience. The point of Rescue is to broaden your sphere of awareness beyond just yourself. That requires unconscious competency for your own stuff.

 

[Outbound]

Another vote for having experience. The point of Rescue is to broaden your sphere of awareness beyond just yourself. That requires unconscious competency for your own stuff.

I vote the same. The Rescue course requires a good familiarity with doffing gear while task loaded and under stress. I think it's better to be a more comfortable diver before jumping into it.

Second, getting emergency oxygen provider training is also a good idea. It dovetails perfectly with Rescue and, in my opinion, should be part of the same course. Maybe it is for SSI, I don't know. For PADI it's separate.

The third suggestion I have is to not take a Rescue class while on a dive vacation, if possible. The majority of the class is spent on the surface, with occasional short "dives" to find a lost diver, etc. It's a waste of two days of vacation, with no real diving. Take the course at home with a shop that does it at a local quarry or lake.

Lastly, can anyone with more experience on the agency curriculum development side explain why the training agencies still stick to the in-water rescue breath training so heavily? I understand that it might have a place in certain scenarios and that it's a good tool to have in the box, but for the most part if I have to rescue another diver I'm hauling ass to the boat/shore/dock while yelling for help. The chances of rescue breaths without chest compressions doing anything are next to nil. I'm also not going to bother removing weights first and then BCD, which never made any sense to me. Just remove the BCD if you have to, and even then I'm making that judgement based on the distance I have to tow the diver and the surface conditions.

 

[Belzelbub]

Second, getting emergency oxygen provider training is also a good idea. It dovetails perfectly with Rescue and, in my opinion, should be part of the same course. Maybe it is for SSI, I don't know. For PADI it's separate.

It's separate for SSI, but a pre-requisite. In SSI, the course is called React Right and includes EFR and O2 Provider. You don't need to necessarily take React Right to take Stress & Rescue as they don't specifically call out React Right.

 

[TMHeimer]

According to the PADI website, "Adventure Diver/Junior Adventure Diver (or qualifying certification) with completed Underwater Navigation Dive" is a Rescue Diver prerequisite. Adventure Diver consists of 3 of the different specialty dives; Advanced Open Water requires 5.

Right, I should have mentioned the Adventure requirement.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with those who say you'd get more out of Rescue if you had some decent experience first. But, I also wonder about new divers buddying up (like from the same class even) for dives with neither having any knowledge about what to do with a panicked diver or an unconscious one, giving rescue breaths and CPR, etc. Better to take Rescue as soon as practical after OW (maybe 5-10 dives after just so buoyancy is down pretty well) and at least have the knowledge of what you're supposed to do if a rescue situation comes up. One can always review the rescue skills later when you are now a more experienced diver anyway.

 

[Big Dan K]

Having taken both, I thought the DAN DFA Pro course was more thorough than the SSI React Right and O2 provider courses.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That's kind of how I looked at it when I registered us for the rescue diving course. I don't expect to be able to rescue anyone on my own but I would like to at least be able to recognize when someone might be having issues before they get to that point. Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you think that it's still a good idea to proceed even at our novice level?

I do. For all three of you. Especially if you all dive together most of the time. When I taught I emphasized that any in water responses should be done as part of a team. And you have a team of 3 to share the task loading. That's rare and valuable.
Novices are exactly who should be taking the class. I give detailed reasons for it in my second book. SCUBA: A Practical Guide to Advanced Level Diving.
Not only will it help to recognize problems with others, but it will also change how you look at your own dive planning and preparation. Too many divers do not recognize and are not told just what the activity is.
Shops and instructors are afraid of scaring them away.
Below is what I told every student before I took a cent from them.
"SCUBA is an activity that takes place in an environment that is normally hostile to human life. We don't have gills so we rely on mechanical devices to keep from dying. It is not a question of if those devices will fail, but when. So you need to be ready for that.
It is an activity that can be fun, entertaining, educational, exciting, and if done within the confines of your training and experience- safe. More or less. But go outside of that too far, too fast and it has the potential to kill you in some very creative, nasty, and painful ways."

Taking the rescue class will help to identify those times when you might be getting close to your limits. Or when a so-called "professional" is taking you close to them. It will give you the tools to evaluate this and say, "Nope, not today" and end the dive.
I also told my students to NEVER trust a DM or Guide to keep them safe unless they specifically hired them for that purpose. Group guides should never be relied on. That's not what they are there for and it;s unfair to expect of them.
Take the class. Now.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

No one seems to realize that once you take it, you can always take it again down the line. Or you can participate in a class as a "victim" or "bystander" and get some refresher time.
I loved having former students show up to make things "interesting" for new students.
Sometimes, I would not tell the students that they were there, and they'd just run up and start asking for "help, because we see you are doing a rescue class and we can't find our buddy" or come up and collapse in front of them. It was always priceless to see their reactions.
Similar to the ones where I'd have them in the water around the dock or shore and brief them. Then, all of a sudden, I'd roll my eyes back in my head and fall into the water "unconscious" to see how fast they reacted.
But the surface stuff was often the most valuable. I had people in BPW's, jackets, sidemount, doubles, wetsuits, and drysuits in the same class. Before the water stuff, I have everyone assemble their gear on a large tarp.
Then have an assistant take them around the site. While they were doing that I'd "adjust" everyone's gear and when they came back, inspect each other's rigs to find the issues. And the owner of the gear would explain why they dived what they did, why it was configured the way it was, and how to best help them if there was a problem.
I also made a harness they would have to cut me out of on the last scenario and get me out of the water to experience using their cutting tools. Because the truth is, if you are nonresponsive, I'm not messing with trying to find clips and buckles. The harness/BC can be replaced. I'm cutting you out of it if I think that's the fastest way to get you out.
Knowing how to use the tools you carry is crucial. Why are you carrying them if you don't know how to use them?