Path to rebreather diving

[O2BBubbleFree]

As some of you know, I lurk here in the RB section a lot, and am planning on someday being a full-blown bubble-free diver (eCCR, recreational limits, don’t anticipate technical environments ‘til much later down the road, if ever).

However, it’s going to take me a few years to save up the fun coupons ($).

So, I would like to tap the ‘voices of experience’, and bounce a couple of ideas I have as to steps I could take along the path:

1. Bailout. I’m thinking of incorporating a slung 19 as a pony in my OC diving, thinking that I could carry it over to RB when I get there, and already be used to it. So far I like the slung pony idea better than just a second stage off of the dil. for OC bailout, but would certainly entertain discussions that haven’t already been hashed out elsewhere.

2. Computer. Per recent discussions on another thread, I’m thinking that at some point I could replace my old air computer with a new Nitrox computer that does multiple mixes, use it while diving OC, then carry it over to RB diving until I can afford an RB-capable computer. I realize I won’t get the full NDL benefit of a ‘real’ RB computer, but I think this approach would be acceptable in a transitionary state. What would be the best features to look for besides ability to switch mixes on-the-fly, # of mixes, and 0 – 100% O2 capability? I know that some models offer up to three pressure senders. When I get to RB could I use one sender for dil. and one for O2, or is the computer expecting you to use one gas at a time (OC), and going to get confused if both gas pressures are dropping? (That’s probably a question for the mfr. when I’m looking to buy, but thought maybe someone had already addressed this issue.)

Are there any other practices and/or equipment that I could incorporate into my OC diving that I could carry over, and ease the transition to RB?

And again, thank you all for your assistance.

 

[padiscubapro]

As some of you know, I lurk here in the RB section a lot, and am planning on someday being a full-blown bubble-free diver (eCCR, recreational limits, don’t anticipate technical environments ‘til much later down the road, if ever).

However, it’s going to take me a few years to save up the fun coupons ($).

So, I would like to tap the ‘voices of experience’, and bounce a couple of ideas I have as to steps I could take along the path:

1. Bailout. I’m thinking of incorporating a slung 19 as a pony in my OC diving, thinking that I could carry it over to RB when I get there, and already be used to it. So far I like the slung pony idea better than just a second stage off of the dil. for OC bailout, but would certainly entertain discussions that haven’t already been hashed out elsewhere.

2. Computer. Per recent discussions on another thread, I’m thinking that at some point I could replace my old air computer with a new Nitrox computer that does multiple mixes, use it while diving OC, then carry it over to RB diving until I can afford an RB-capable computer. I realize I won’t get the full NDL benefit of a ‘real’ RB computer, but I think this approach would be acceptable in a transitionary state. What would be the best features to look for besides ability to switch mixes on-the-fly, # of mixes, and 0 – 100% O2 capability? I know that some models offer up to three pressure senders. When I get to RB could I use one sender for dil. and one for O2, or is the computer expecting you to use one gas at a time (OC), and going to get confused if both gas pressures are dropping? (That’s probably a question for the mfr. when I’m looking to buy, but thought maybe someone had already addressed this issue.)

Are there any other practices and/or equipment that I could incorporate into my OC diving that I could carry over, and ease the transition to RB?

And again, thank you all for your assistance.

for computers, you have a few choices as to upgradeability..

From cochran you can buy a basic nitrox computer (at least an emc-16 in my opinion) and have it upgraded when you are ready, from delta p you can get the vr2 or vr3 and upgrade when ready...

 

[Crazyduck]

Hey mate,
Don’t you hate it when you ask questions and virtually no one replies- man that sucks.
Common guys throw out some input. Joe, thank you for your comments.


Bailout for me is dependent on the type of dive.
However, for non-deco dives most divers carry an Aluminum 40 as a stage tank. The mix is dependent on the dive and most divers use something like 32 to 40% nitrox.

If deco is required then you want bailout to get you safely to the surface at the deepest point of the dive. Rules of thirds usually apply- 1/3 in, 1/3 out, 1/3 for your buddy with a rebreather failure getting home from that deepest point.

Since the gas is staged your buddy should have his own bailout and then your is secondary backup to your own. Please do not plan on using your own onboard diluent to us as backup. Most on board tanks are very small and this causes secondary problems and issues.

Computers- I would stage up on the computer. If you want a rebreather computer the list is rather small at the moment. I would start with either a straight nitrox computer (non-integrated) or a multi-gas. Diverite makes the Nitek Plus, and the Duo. The plus is a wrist watch style and very easy to function. The Duo is a wrist unit- however it has BIG numbers (which is important) and shows such things as PPo2 on the fly during the dive- very nice.

Myself and Joe honestly agree to disagree about the Cochran computers but that is a personal choice. I will say that he likes it and I have seen nothing but trouble with it. However, it is a personal choice and I know that Joe feels that the computer and recent changes makes the unit worthwhile. I am holding jugement on the new computer- and hoping they have changed their ways.

Transponders are a gimmick and utterly unless (my opinion) plus they are a failure point that can cost you your life without mechanical gauges in backup. Please keep in mind with some systems if you have to toggle the tank ‘on and off’ (if you have any kind or o-ring or leak problem) you run the RISK of the transponder erroring out and then will not reset itself until you surface. So what you see it ‘ERR’ on the screen and you are thinking what the ****** is my tank pressure? On a recreational dive this is not a huge concern but on a technical dive it raises your breathing rate and is unacceptable and unnecessary risk.

Cross over would be diving nitrox as much as possible and starting to think and understand what oxygen is doing to your system. Then after advanced nitrox adding a Al40 stage to your rig and understanding how that with say 40% can benefit your dives.

Hope some of this helps, great questions since computers are one of the more expensive toys we have.

Best regards, Andrew

 

[wedivebc]

I dive with a 30cuft bailout slung nicely under my left arm. As far as computers go I usually dive a HS explorer model O and since I still own a suunto from my OC diving days I use it as a BT. Yesterday I did a dive to max 30m so I set my suunto to 25% nitrox (4ata * .25 = 1.0 ppo2) and compared my suunto with the explorer. The suunto gave me 5 min of deco where the explorer was still 20 min away at the deepest portion of the dive.
I would definetely get a computer that does CCR since that is where you are going. Otherwise like my suunto you end up with a very expensive BT.

 

[padiscubapro]

I dive with a 30cuft bailout slung nicely under my left arm. As far as computers go I usually dive a HS explorer model O and since I still own a suunto from my OC diving days I use it as a BT. Yesterday I did a dive to max 30m so I set my suunto to 25% nitrox (4ata * .25 = 1.0 ppo2) and compared my suunto with the explorer. The suunto gave me 5 min of deco where the explorer was still 20 min away at the deepest portion of the dive.
I would definetely get a computer that does CCR since that is where you are going. Otherwise like my suunto you end up with a very expensive BT.

Dave,
I agree with you wholeheartedly.. MY choice would be the explorer, but unfortunately there is no entry level version, so he would have to purchase more than he needs and wants to spend at the moment...

Crazyduck,
I understand your misgivings and past problems.. Cochran will be comming out with a replacement for the lifeguard (not sure when), so you might be able to work something out with them once its released..

 

[Mverick]

I'm actually been running square profiles with a bottom timer for my Mccr stuff. I looked into computers. And weighed everything.

I really liked the Explorer over the VR3 for easy to read. And also, it was made in the US. Which adds to my list if I ever had problems with it. Explorer had some problems in the old day's. But from all my reading it was go to dive. So, About 2 years ago. I bought one.

Tested it on a Live aboard in Bahama's. Just standard diving. Worked 4 days or so. And died. Great. So, when I get back I send it in. Took about 2 months to get it back. And it was winter so not much diving. Then, took it to a quarry dive. Nothing deep or crazy. And Deco numbers are looking off. Starting to eat batteries again. I mean 1 $12 battery a day. Sent it out to a guy who knows all about the HS. He dove it. Said no problem with deco. Battery lasted fine. But half the screen numbers went away at around 100ft.

Took it out diving once more before sending it back to HS again. Looked fine on surface. Went in water. At 3 ft shut off. Get back on surface and there's water drops inside the case. Send it back in again. 1 or 2 months till I get it back again. Talked to HS about it and said it would be about a week. Finally I couldn't talk to them anymore. I was so ticked off at a $1400 computer that had so many problems. Asked for money back. No answer. But I did get the computer back.

I got it back now. Dove it once to 50ft and no problems. But, I'm not happy with it. 2 months to get things serviced isn't good. And having it go out and die out of the factory isn't good either. Then, I see others who have bought them. And a lot of them stated they had to ship it back 2-3 times before it worked right. Some got them back right away. But, seems like they know the owner. I don't. It took right at 2 months. With all the problems. You'd think. They would grab a new one. And ship it out right away. Nope, had to fix mine and send it back. But it sat there a long time before they fixed it.

I actually like Cochran's. Have 4 old ones. No problems.

VR3's? Don't know. Have one now. But haven't dove it yet.

On my Eccr. I'm using the Shearwater unit that was on it from manufacturer. Batteries last a long time. Don't cost $10 a piece. Well, takes a bunch of aa's. And lasts around 120 dives. So, if you buy an ECCR. It just might come with a good deco computer with it.

For a sling tank. I use a AL40. I want enough air to get me up. And that's usually minimum. I never need all of it. But if something happens. I want more then I need. My Eccr has dual steel 19's on it. O2 and Dil. Or Dual 13's. My mccr have AL 13's or Plug in offboard gas. But one is build to go deep. Big Scrubber.

I Wish, Cochran would come out with one. There data tracking is miles ahead of the HS Explorer and VR3. I'd wait and see. Even if Cochran came out with it though. Buy it after it's been out a year. Or, If you're getting a Meg. The APECS 3 is supposed to have computer built in. And it's supposed to be out next year. From what they say.

Does this cloud it up enough... LOL..

Oh yea,
YBOD/Inspiration can have Visions electronics. Think it has deco built in.

Dive Rite Optima has the Hammer Head electronics with deco built in.

Ourborus has electronics with deco built in.

Meg used to have ShearWater with deco built in. But, now it's no longer an option. Next year they will have there own deco built in controller.

Prism doesn't have deco built in. They have a fancy HUD that they've been showing for a year or two. But it's never come to market yet. But, once it does. It will have deco built in as well.

So, buying a computer for it. Might not be necessary anyway.

Manuall ccrs like the Kiss. Would benefit from the computer. Otherwise it's a backup. But, you should have tables for back up too...

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

Thanks, all, for the insights.

FWIW, I had plan to incorporate a deco-slung 19 initially, as it has enough emergency gas for any diving I plan to do in the near future, and will get me used to using a slung bottle.

However, I now remember reading a post in a thread on pony's that suggested going with a 30 or 40, as it isn't much larger (physically) and could also serve as a deco/stage tank... Maybe I should consider that.

And thanks for all the computer info.