PDIC- What in the WORLD are yall thinking?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Dear Trace.

I am new to Scubaboard and as a newby I must revive a tread that is a little old ... but only a month old, not so bad !

I am looking into completing the instructor level and a good friend of mine is a PDIC instructor trainer. So no doubt about the ability of the teacher. However, I wonder a bit about PDIC as I read mostly bad reviews about the "head office", being the whole family that runs the show.

Looking around the web, most (if not all ;-) the positive comments about PDIC came from YOU, with some quite positive remarks in the past. But now I read your comment in 2011 and wonder if you would still recommend doing instructor level with PDIC.

I would like to stay away from Padi (don't want to start a discussion about this ;-) and, although I liked my experience with SSI there is no instructor trainer for it in Montreal.

So, what's your last thoughts about PDIC ?

Thanks for your help.

Jacques-André
 
Sad, reading this thread.

How is it that some businesses never seem to grasp the concept that the single most important factor in a customer service business is the satisfied customer?

A certifying agency is (or should be) a customer service business, and with today's internet audience at our fingertips, unhappy customers are going to be heard by others, even if the business itself refuses to listen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jax
Jacques-André, for an open water instructor wishing to teach the highest quality diving, the PDIC OW program might be the best in the diving industry. The open water manual is often thought to be a difficult read by many students, yet those students who are hungry for thorough information appreciate the facts, figures, and information. The program is designed to create instructor independence. If taught correctly, a PDIC open water student should be able to plan and conduct dives on his or her own with a high degree of aptitude and entry-level skill. Some of the habits for safety learned in PDIC open water I credit for keeping me healthy and alive to this day. In the hands of a well-trained instructor, PDIC programs from open water through technical are top notch.

The problems that you will deal with as a PDIC instructor will simply all come down to the attitude of the individual who will answer the phone, send you materials, and process certification cards. Some days go better than others. If you are an independent instructor with low volume you will have an easier time working with HQ than if you are a high volume store. Is the IT you know Alain Tremblay? If so, I met him during his training in the early 1990's. He's quite a character and very dedicated.

As for SSI, you'd need to be attached to a dive center in order to teach. I'm not a big fan of agencies tying education into retail sales in an attempt at "quality control." If you put the work and time into being a scuba instructor and if you care about your students there is no reason one should be forced to operate through a store if an instructor wishes to do things on his or her own.

You can always take the PDIC instructor course and cross over to another agency down the road if you are unhappy with the treatment you receive. I crossed over to SDI/TDI then PSAI. You can hold instructor ratings with multiple agencies.

Personally, I'm very happy that I started teaching scuba diving through PDIC. But, like anything else, it is the instructor candidate's experience, dedication and teaching philosophy + the instructor trainer + every talent both bring into an educational program that will determine the results of a newly minted dive pro.

Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me with specific questions best left to a private correspondence.
 
I just noticed a couple of newer replies here....


I never did hear a word from PDIC. I'm sure my email was deleted, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least beat if they refused to confirm my certification should I ever wish to try and have it reconfirmed. I will reiterate a point I hope was clear in this thread. I have NO personal qualms with any PDIC instructor, there have been several, including Mr Malin, who have gone out of there way to help a student they will likely(due to geography) never teach nor make a dime off of. However, the conduct of PDIC in this matter has been the absolute most unprofessional, ridiculous dealing I've ever had with any business. I will NEVER do any business with the agency themselves. I never intend to even contact them, as I'm nearly certain they would refuse to assist me, and another altercation will result in litigation.....


I'm now PADI AOW certified.
 
I never did hear a word from PDIC.
And I have never had a reply from them, either. And I was just writing to the web site asking for basic information in a polite manner, never having had any reason to do otherwise. I admit that I only sent in questions two times for two totally separate issues, but that is still 0 for 2 in the statistics column, and it does not help the batting average.
 
This is just another example of the need for an oversight agency, and a set of defined standards. This type of no customer service would cease and desist. This is what happens when anyone can open up a certification agency, this needs to stop. I am not a big fan of PADI but they get the need for customer service, as does NAUI.
If there was one central agency that could certify others, and have the power to yank their ability to certify divers, then and only then will we have accountability in our industry. This is not to say that there are many fine examples of customer service out there, it is the few bad ones that make us look very unprofessional.
 
You mean like the rstc? Oh that would be just great. Look at the job they have done to keep standards high and insure quality training. Right. A central agency made up of the various agencies now. Whose standards do you model it on? The highest or the lowest. LA county program standards, YMCA standards(they were the first national cert agency), or one of the newer ones that allows someone to be certed in a weekend? No what is needed is an honest comparison of agency standards in an easily accessible place so that potential students can compare them and choose the one that suits them best. Along with reviews of each program by random grads of the ow programs.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9550 using Tapatalk
 
There is an aspect to this thread that no one has yet explored.

Just to be up front, over my years and years of being involved with diving, I have had dealings with most of the agencies people consider to be giant, evil, uncaring corporations, either by taking courses from them or teaching courses for them. Although I've had my neural implant removed years ago, some might still consider my opinions suspect.

*end disclaimer*

Many new instructors don't stop to think that they will ever be involved in an "incident." Many current instructors believe that if you are a good instructor who is conscientious, experienced and know what you're doing, they'll never be involved in an incident.

While an instructor is completely responsible for what happens to his students, it doesn't mean that an incident is always the instructors fault. Things happen. A student lies on their medical questionnaire about asthma or epilepsy and suddenly a checkout dive is a life and death situation. Bad things do happen to good instructors. It might even be a student you certified months ago involved in an incident with a dive master in another country and suddenly you are the one being called for a deposition. It might be something as simple as lending someone a mask.

When something bad happens to a good instructor, the public doesn't care that it was a good instructor. The family of the injured or deceased doesn't care how many years of experience you have or how careful you are with your students. The lawyers will comb through your paperwork looking for any possible mistake. Experts will spin storylines of your negligence based on an offhand remark or the position of a fin lying on the bottom. Internet forums will light up to bash you and whatever agency you happened to be teaching for.

When you have done everything above and beyond the agency standards, when you filled out all the paperwork correctly, when you did the best you could and made the best decisions you could, your certifying agency may be the only source of support you can turn to.

When you as an instructor are under attack from all sides for something that couldn't be prevented and you call your agency, who do you want to answer the phone?

There are many knowledgeable and experienced instructors on this board who are qualified to create well thought-out curriculums that are comprehensive and geared to safety. But there is more to an agency than that. It is about defending that curriculum when things go horribly bad.

In a worst-case scenario, I want to pick up the phone and contact an agency headquarters that has resources, experience and professionalism. A great curriculum is only as good as those who deploy and manage that curriculum. This isn't a question of big agency or small agency. It is a question of how an agency conducts itself.

If an agency has difficulty dealing with someone calling about a C card, what's going happen when they get a serious phone call?


just sayin...
 
...

Many new instructors don't stop to think that they will ever be involved in an "incident." Many current instructors believe that if you are a good instructor who is conscientious, experienced and know what you're doing, they'll never be involved in an incident.
You are correct because the way in which most courses are structured and operated "incidents" are often out of the instructors' control.
While an instructor is completely responsible for what happens to his students, it doesn't mean that an incident is always the instructors fault. Things happen. A student lies on their medical questionnaire about asthma or epilepsy and suddenly a checkout dive is a life and death situation.
That's why a real diving medical exam should be required, with the full results going back to the instructor, not just the physician's OK.
Bad things do happen to good instructors.
They do, but they shouldn't.
It might even be a student you certified months ago involved in an incident with a dive master in another country and suddenly you are the one being called for a deposition. It might be something as simple as lending someone a mask.
If you can't teach someone to safely surface without a mask, sorry. but you should find another line of work.
When something bad happens to a good instructor, the public doesn't care that it was a good instructor. The family of the injured or deceased doesn't care how many years of experience you have or how careful you are with your students. The lawyers will comb through your paperwork looking for any possible mistake. Experts will spin storylines of your negligence based on an offhand remark or the position of a fin lying on the bottom.
Yup, you better have all your ducks in a neat little row.
Internet forums will light up to bash you and whatever agency you happened to be teaching for.
That does not require an "incident," just an opinion.
When you have done everything above and beyond the agency standards, when you filled out all the paperwork correctly, when you did the best you could and made the best decisions you could, your certifying agency may be the only source of support you can turn to.
Sure, and it makes you feel real supported when the first thing that they do is look to have their agency severed from the case.
When you as an instructor are under attack from all sides for something that couldn't be prevented and you call your agency, who do you want to answer the phone?
My lawyer, my wife, my friends, in that order.
There are many knowledgeable and experienced instructors on this board who are qualified to create well thought-out curriculums that are comprehensive and geared to safety. But there is more to an agency than that. It is about defending that curriculum when things go horribly bad.
I worked a lot of cases on both sides of the table, I have yet to see a single case is which the curriculum was attacked, it is to messy and too open to interpretation and spin. Gross violations of stated procedures, yes ... curriculum? Never.
In a worst-case scenario, I want to pick up the phone and contact an agency headquarters that has resources, experience and professionalism. A great curriculum is only as good as those who deploy and manage that curriculum. This isn't a question of big agency or small agency. It is a question of how an agency conducts itself.
All agencies conduct themselves the same way, they work like hell to be dropped from the complaint and once that occurs they stand back and let the lawyers that have been hired to handle the case, handle the case.
If an agency has difficulty dealing with someone calling about a C card, what's going happen when they get a serious phone call?
It really doesn't matter, what you need is a good lawyer, not a warm and fuzzy agency wonk whose perfectly happy to throw you to the wolves if that is what is in the best interests of the agency he or she works for. Do not be fooled, if you are involved in an incident, provide your agency and insurance company with no more than you absolutely have to. Once you have a lawyer that you can trust, who is representing you and nobody else, not the agency, not the shop, not the boat, not another instructor, not another diver, just you ... and you have been assured of confidentiality and lawyer/client privilege, then, and only then, should you provide all the excruciating details.
 
Thal,

Excellent Reply!


"It really doesn't matter, what you need is a good lawyer, not a warm and fuzzy agency wonk whose perfectly happy to throw you to the wolves if that is what is in the best interests of the agency he or she works for. Do not be fooled, if you are involved in an incident, provide your agency and insurance company with no more than you absolutely have to. "



Yes, this is good advice for any professional in any industry involved in an incident. Most of us have seen that in a harsh legal bruhaha even family members can turn on you and join the circling sharks (only an expression, sharks are beautiful creatures and an important part of the eco-system, please don't eat their fins, yada, yada, yada).

Still, I can't help but wonder if an agency could make an 'incident' situation better or worse. I know as an instructor we would have to be so careful in the way we talk about incidents. Could the grumpy ramblings of an 'agency wonk' make it worse on an agency and instructor?

Long ago in my previous life as an instructor, I had a minor 'non-incident' which some tried to escalate to the level of incident. I had done everything right and had to report to my agency. The agency HQ gave me the warm, fuzzy supportive treatment (maybe because they recognized it as a non-incident and knew there was no jeopardy.) While it may have had no impact on the way events unfolded, it was nice to have it handled that way. The last thing I needed at the time was to deal with some nasty a-whole at HQ.

Perhaps an argument could be made that a smaller agency is more desirable because if they turn on you, they would be less dangerous that a large, slick, corporate organization with lots of resources?


Welcome to my first hijack! Yay!

... oh .. wait...

Hijack is a bad thing right?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom