Point-for-point on what's missing from OW Classes

[Conor]

There is another type of diver that is a little more outside the control of the instructor, and that is the one who has good trim and finning technique, when they want to. They just don't care about kicking up the bottom.

I am thinking in particular of one diver who throughout the dives he would show that he could swim horizintally, hover etc without issue, but when stopping to look at table coral would stand vertically and rest his fin tips in the sand, then when leaving, rather than use his lung volume to raise himself would kick up a cloud of sand, potentially damging the coral. Whenever I or one of the other divers would wave him to comeup off the bottom he would dismiss us.

I know he knows how to do it and why it is important because I was on the same OW course and at the same briefings, I have seen how he can dive when he wants too.

Unfortunately kicking up the bottom doesn't effect the diver in question directly, so some are selfish enough to not care about what they are doing for the divers who follow.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Conor,
Yes there are some of those. Other than to try to teach the right attitudes during their training and after I don't know that there is much we can do about them. Even good training won't eliminate jerks from the world.

 

[Conor]

Very true.

I guess I was aiming to defend some of the instructors who although the teach well and cover the importance of such things, are badly represented by the divers who carry their names on their cert cards.

 

[TCDiver1]

Well Mike, for the record, i would like to reiterate what i'm trying to say about trim and buoyancy. I respect and agree with the meat of what your doing here but feel another instructors view of this may be helpful to some.

First i agree that having excellent horizontal trim should be the goal of all divers. It is the optimal position to achieve for most diving circumstances.

However, i do not agree that trim is absolutely essential to achieve good buoyancy control. As stated above, it is prefered, but not essential IMO. I know your intentions are totally honorable but fear some of your posting infers that any diver who is not trimmed out perfectly horizontal, all the time, is a crappy diver. That could not be further away from the truth IME & IMO.

Not all divers who fit that bill, deserve the rap that is being infered. Most of the divers i dive with and divers i have trained do not stir up the bottom and are not trimmed out perfectly when not in motion. These people are excellent divers without the exposure to trim my new students are getting. They will get better, as i have, with the trimming techniques i've learned on this board.

I believe that is the ultimate goal of this board, to improve divers. Not to scare them off by telling new divers that if their trim isn't perfect, they are crappy divers. I'm sure that is not your intent but sometimes it comes off that way to me.

For those newer divers out there who are reading this, i am not trying to make excuses for tilling up the bottom. That should not be the norm in your diving. If it is, you need to work much harder on your buoyancy control. If you don't stir up the bottom but are not perfectly trimmed out, don't lose sleep over it. You should certainly work towards better, more horizontal trim and MikeF is a great resource, who is more than willing to help in any way he can. But Mike, to me, sometimes your posts come off as all or nothing. As in, if your not perfectly horizontal when diving, your not safe, and i think that is overstating the problem. It's not that black and white to me.

I say, please work toward horizontal trim but don't stress yourself out if it takes you awhile to get there. It takes some longer than others, its just the way it is. And, although not optimal, hanging vertical at your safety stops is not the end of the world. Especially if when in motion, you swim in a horizontal position.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I agree with you gedunk that perfect trim is not required to be a reasonably proficient diver. I do tend to use extreme cases for analysis. Some divers (depending on build and equipment) can strap on their equipment and the right amount of weight and end up not be in extreme unbalance. Others are not so lucky especially when over weighted as many students are (another area where some instructors take shortcuts). Incedentally one of the reasons the over weighting sometimes seems required is because the student gets down and as soon as they kick the ascend. Rather than solve the problem the instructor adds more weight. Certainly the account of my first rescue above is an extreme case. I see numerous extreme cases every trip to local sites though they don't usually result in a rescue. My intent is certainly not to call anyone a crappy diver. Reasonably good trim does reduce the ups and downs of learning buoyancy control though because it reduces the effect of speed on vertical position.

OTOH, I find the fact that incedents such as my "first rescue" ever happen discomforting because the never should, not even one. My second rescue was even was more frightening and was a result of the same root cause. It also occured during my DM class while assisting the same instructor. While the student didn't panick (completely) the risk may have been greater because we were out in the Ocean. This incedent also happened on the divers first post certification dive.

I am pointing out more than one problem here that is all too common in dive training IMO.

 

[TCDiver1]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
This incedent also happened on the divers first post certification dive.

I am pointing out more than one problem here that is all too common in dive training IMO.

Yeah Mike, like i said, i'm in full agreement with the meat of what your saying. I posted the previous more for the lurkers out there and less for you.

I wish i could tell you i've never had to perform any rescues like the ones you mentioned but i would be lying. And that doesn't count the accidents waiting to happen you catch before they have a chance to blow up.

Unfortunately, some of these accidents will happen no matter what the instructor teaches or how much time is spent teaching.

Diving tends to attract the daredevil type personality and has large part IMO, in leading to many diving accidents. Whats one of the first questions students ask you?

How deep you been? .......... Yeah, me too!

 

[DiverBuoy]

ScubaDan once bubbled...
False statement! hardly, remember I included trim in there and anyone that has followed this thread nows that you have said that it does not belong in ow class that's what the PPB is for.

ScubaDan - you said I or other PADI instructors leave(or left) buoyancy out of OW - that is a standards violation. Please don't go using transferrence of your issues from the instructor that failed to teach you properly and apply that to all other PADI instructors. I teach buoyancy, and my students don't crawl on the bottom or damage the reef.

Mike Ferrara (I wrote the "embarrass them" part late last night so please forgive me). I've also DM'ed and assisted with many classes. The buoyancy instruction given was completely sound and the students looked fine during their open water dives. However, later when I observed those certified divers from a boat, it was like they threw everything they learned out the door. On the boat, after my observations, I took the time to tactfully remind them how important it is to be neutrally buoyant and make sure they have the right weight. They said we rented and nothing "fits" like it did during their open water course. I walked them through the exercise of a weight check - and though I didn't see them dive anymore that day, they came up and thanked me for helping them later.

What does that mean - I think it is a community effort when divers remind each other about the important things. Divers who go long periods between diving usually are very receptive to tactful comments from experienced divers who dive frequently. In this regard everyone can contribute to the health of our dive sites and making better divers. Certified divers have to take responsibility.