Police Corruption On The East Side

[driftin' by]

Can this thread be closed? Please? It's nothing more than stupid bickering at this point.

Why? What good is a forum if people cannot discuss things they're passionate about while having a friendly, thought provoking debate over topics trivial and what not? Agree, it's progressed off topic but those of us still posting replies are obviously enjoying ourselves while observing the TOS.

 

[Christi]

Police corruption in the U.S. is very limited. The media, Internal Affairs, and Congress sees to that. It Mexico, and several other places around the world, it's a free for all.

This is an extremely naive and erroneous statement.

 

[scuba_guy62]

Well this is a very unique range of topics flowing from what seems to be a rare happening on Isla Cozumel. Like the majority of those who have visited the island I feel very safe there yet still exercise caution as I would even in my own home town or Toronto. I have done a fair bit of travelling both for liesure and work (military and fire service) and have encountered my fair share of "ugly american's" from both continents but they have always been the minority albeit a loud minority. I'm not sure if it just that "scuba divers" are just a better behaved class of people but it has been a pleasure and a privillege to make the acquaintence of many a fine U.S. citizen and enjoy a dive, a meal and or a drink with some of you and share in the different yet similar culture we share. Some of us just don't put our best foot forward on vacation (that whole edge thing) where consumption can get the better of us. There have been some good bits of advice posted in case you find yourself in the same situation and a few anthropological/social studies lesson's thrown in for good measure. I suppose if we all just think about it...there are some outstanding and beautiful "humans" as well as a few ugly "humans" everywhere we go. Just try and keep it humane as best you can and if anyone has some Coz tickets or hotel/diving packages they are now too scared to use....I'll take them...lol. Keep the thread active and re-read some of what has been written, learn from it and maybe even re-evaluate your own postitions on some posts. Namaste.....Hey Christi how goes the Yoga...any more time to get out and bend a little?

 

[116fire]

I just got back from Coz and had a wonderful time there. Several thoughts:
With all due respect to honest police everywhere if you don't think there is a lot of police corruption in the states, you are ignorent. Google "Burge" in Chicago. Or take a walk in one of our "economically disadvantaged" areas, at night.
I know Coz is safer than Chicago.
I suspect the person in the story got lippy or at least disrespectful. Try that in Philly or Chicago...
Driving without a liecence...passport, Mexican immagration paper.
Lastly It is always handy to have some kind of local resource (such as Christi) your hotel or dive opperation manager or bar tender. If you are staying for a while and not a complete nit wit, it is likely you will have somebody to turn to for help and advice.
Go to Coz, dive, walk around enjoy it is one of the safest places I have ever been.

 

[redacted]

This is an extremely naive and erroneous statement.

Maybe she's has never driven thru the Republic of Texas with "foreign" liscense plates.

 

[TEERLKAY]

Wow!

Interesting read!

There’s been some really intelligent stuff here:
…The first problem with the Mexican police is that they use a patronage system rather than a civil service system like we have in the US….The second problem is that the rate of pay for police is well below the standard of living we would associate with professional police work….Bottom line, is that you have to deal with Mexican customs while you are a guest. You can not assume that you are in Kansas.olice:


And some funny stuff too:
I´m in cozumel right now...now i´m scared to leave the hotel

I'm in Minnesota right now and can't wait to be in Cozumel in 2 weeks!!!!!

The frail looking critter gets nailed first by the predator. Don't look the part of a victim. Chin high, confident walk...you're on vacation! Own yourself-be respectful and tip generously!!!

…For some reason, the timeshare people seem to REALLY like me.


…Ugly Canadians


And some, I think, inadvertently funny stuff (the best kind of funny stuff!)::rofl:
…or whatever the Spanish translation of Mexican is

…So the song "Proud to be an American" do you think the song writers meant to include Mexico too?

…Sorry, but I don't know any of my fellow Canadians who sound just like Americans.

…The term “American” refers to the people from the United States, not just anyone from the American continent.


And some stuff that makes me just shake my head:

No offence to the locals, but everyone knows that Mexico is corrupt. Renting a car is just not a good idea.

Mexico is rapidly entering into a state of anarchy.

His big mistake was driving a car. Just don't.

All police are corrupt everywhere, whether it's Mexico or the USA. It's a given.

Police corruption in the U.S. is very limited.



A couple of things to remember – it’s a posting of a posting on another board – and, as mentioned, it’s one side of a story.

Mexico is a sovereign, foreign country. They have their own laws,customs and ways. International tourists are visitors. International tourism is incredibly important to the economy, especially in places like Cozumel. They WANT YOU to have a good time and don’t forget to come back often!

I’m a gringo that lives in Mexico. I find Mexicans to be generous, gracious, hard-working, and honest. But guess what – there are bad Mexicans too! In all walks of like. Just like in the USA and (gasp) Canada! Just like every country on Earth.

The depiction of Mexico in the US Media is not the Mexico I’ve known. However, Mexico is a huge country and I’ve not seen it all (I’m trying).

If you insist on letting posts like this influence your travel plans – don’t come. The diving’s not THAT good! Pretty good diving in S. Fla- oh but you better not rent a car – remember those German tourists a few years back? Oh and you better bone up on your Spanish! Damn immigrants! :biggrinba

 

[waynel]

Yes, Christi I did get bent out of shape. Don't you when folks write some disparaging blanket statement about Cozumel? Of course you do and you have every right to speak up because isolated behaviours, whether by crooked cops or shop owners, should not be an overall indictment of the island. I love Cozumel and that's why I'll be there in 27 days. And I also love the United States.

I think, if everyone is honest, when they hear the term "ugly American" could agree that term is referring to a citizen of the United States. Again, let's be honest, not theoretical. If the OP's "ugly American" was from Canada, South or Central America, then I apologize for assuming she meant a U.S. citizen. Again, if that is the case, I apologize. But I do not apologize for trying to point out (no matter how badly) the "ugly this or that" really is unneccessary. In my profession, I deal with people from all over the world and I have met plenty of "ugly" people from the world over.

Anyone been to France lately? An article recently came out about how tourists to France were so badly treated, causing so much stress to the tourists, that travel advisories had to be issued. Know where these tourists were from? United States? Nope... Japan.

Just as Christi is clearly aggravated in this thread that some might take this "bad Cozumel cop" story as indicative that corruption is rampant in Cozumel...I don't like the "ugly American" comment being a blanket indictment over the good people of the United States. I agree that Cozumel is a great state and her citizens are wonderful people. That is why I go there. I also believe that is true of the United States and that is why I live here.

 

[judydivescoz]

Well you can blame that on the one who threw out the term "ugly American" I will defend my fellow "Americans" (from the United States) anytime, anyplace.

I'm sure if I had used the phrase "Ugly Mexicans" or "Ugly Arabs" I would have gotten kicked off this board altogether. Yet nothing happens to the person that disparages the U.S...yeah, that's fair.

DP,
You should GOOGLE the term "Ugly American", you will find that it is a well used term that is even defined in many dictionarys. I have copied and pasted the following definition and its source:
The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002.

the Ugly American


Pejorative term for Americans traveling or living abroad who remain ignorant of local culture and judge everything by American standards. The term is taken from the title of a book by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer.

I think that you as well as all Americans should be concious and concerened about the poor behavior some of our countymen exibit while traveling not only in Mexico but around the world.

That aside, we are looking forward to our next relaxing vacation in Cozumel.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

DP,

I think that you as well as all Americans should be concious and concerened about the poor behavior some of our countymen exibit while traveling not only in Mexico but around the world.

That aside, we are looking forward to our next relaxing vacation in Cozumel.

Unfortunately, this happend in EVERY country, its not just American Travelers.......we just get the great name

 

[driftin' by]

waynel: Thanks for replaying and giving us some insight as to the thought process in your earlier post. I'm with you! Damn anyone who that talks crap about the USA! However, I'm still going to have to disagree with you and DivingPrincessE's stance. I have no problem that you both are proud to be Americans of the U.S. and will stand up and fight to protect her (USA), the people and all it stands for. I'll will absolutely do the same. However, I find it interesting that you take such offence to the adjective 'ugly' used to describe someone from your same country that is not acting respectfully while abroad. What other word would you prefer? "Stupid", "drunk", "disrespectful", "pod people" (oops, scratch that last one )? Is it your opinion that no American has the propensity to have a few too many, become belligerent and start a scene while on vacation? If so, you need to take off the blinders.

I've witnessed things that make me ashamed of my fellow countrymen while abroad. I've also witnessed things by citizens of other countries that also made me ashamed while not for being from the same country, but for simply being human and wondering how we have evolved to have such little respect for one another.

I've heard the expression "Ugly American" many times and I personally think it's fitting. Interestingly, I don't here it a lot about other nationalities here on this board or the various other's I regularly frequent. Perhaps it is those specific instances of feeling ashamed that stand out most in our minds? Perhaps it's the "I'm an American so I can say what I want about fellow Americans" syndrome while one is less likely to comment on some incident that involved people of another nationality in an effort to not sound like a bigot. Similar to what DivingPrincessE eluded to earlier with being banished for saying "Ugly Mexican" or "Ugly Canadian". We all have an ugly side to us. Recognizing we do and preventing ways of exposing it, is the key. Anyway, that's what I think.

Now, can we all just get along?