poll: DM everywhere?

[Thalassamania]

Most cold water DMs would very quickly be able to DM in warm locations, but the opposite is not true. That's mainly an SA, dry suit or thick wetsuit and buoyancy/trim thing.

 

[Quero]

True.

What percent of divers, trained in tropical locations, even know what a free-flow is? Surprisingly few divers trained in cold-water locales have been taught how to deal with this situation. Recent posts indicate that DM candidates, having received the breadth of their experience in clear, warm waters, are having a hard time adjusting to the waters in which they will be assuming responsibility for the safety of others.

All of mine know about free flows, and this water here is about as warm and clear as it gets! Dealing with a free flow is a skill that is obligatory according to the standards for my agency. We practice it only in the pool, however, since we don't want to deplete students' air supplies in the Open Water dives. Even though we are in a tropical locale, I recognize that some of my students will go on to dive in cold water environments and may need to utilize this skill, so in addition to practicing, we talk about the fact that most free flows occur in cold water, and why.

In relation to your observation that some DMs may need an adjustment period before they can undertake professional duties in a new environment, I don't doubt that this happens. But that doesn't mean they can't add to their repertoire of skills and be just as effective once they have gained experience as a DM who had exclusive training in a cold water environment.

Here on SB we routinely make comparisons between dive (SCUBA) skills and driving (a vehicle) skills, so here's one that I see as rather parallel. In North America and many other parts of the world people drive on the right hand side of the road with the steering wheel on the left side of the car and the gear shift to their right. I learned to drive under those conditions, and in snow. In half of the countries in which I've lived (three of the six), however, we drive on the left side of the road with the steering wheel on the right side of the car and the gear shift to the left. When I moved from Rio de Janeiro Brazil to London England years and years ago and got a UK driver's license, nobody asked me to retrain for driving on the other side of the road even though it's definitely different. It took some adjustment, especially shifting a manual transmission left handed, but these adjustments were minor in comparison with my understanding of the rules of the road, how to react in the case of an incident, etc. Similarly, no amount of driving in snow and on ice, as stressful as it is, could have prepared me for the chaos that is driving in a big Brazilian city, even on the same side of the road! But still, I was issued a DL and allowed out on the streets, where I carefully and conscientiously acquired the additional skills I needed to be a successful driver there (including growing eyes in the back of my head).

I believe that a well trained DM can make similar adjustments and become a fine dive pro in a new environment regardless of where the DM training has taken place. It just appears to me that some people paint with a rather broad brush when they seem to suggest that no warm-water trained DM should be allowed to work in a cold water environment.

 

[Quero]

Most cold water DMs would very quickly be able to DM in warm locations, but the opposite is not true. That's mainly an SA, dry suit or thick wetsuit and buoyancy/trim thing.

I agree with this. I also think that in addition there's increased psychological stress in cold water and/or low vis. It's harder to slow your breathing down to a yogic rhythm if your muscles are all locked up with cold, and it's harder to think and plan ahead if you can't see ahead.

Still, I believe that while these can present real challenges, they should not disqualify a tropical DM with good people/leadership skills and with a willingness to acquire additional cold-water dive skills from seeking employment in a cold water location.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

In relation to your observation that some DMs may need an adjustment period before they can undertake professional duties in a new environment, I don't doubt that this happens. But that doesn't mean they can't add to their repertoire of skills and be just as effective once they have gained experience as a DM who had exclusive training in a cold water environment.

Here on SB we routinely make comparisons between dive (SCUBA) skills and driving (a vehicle) skills, so here's one that I see as rather parallel. In North America and many other parts of the world people drive on the right hand side of the road with the steering wheel on the left side of the car and the gear shift to their right. I learned to drive under those conditions, and in snow. In half of the countries in which I've lived (three of the six), however, we drive on the left side of the road with the steering wheel on the right side of the car and the gear shift to the left. When I moved from Rio de Janeiro Brazil to London England years and years ago and got a UK driver's license, nobody asked me to retrain for driving on the other side of the road even though it's definitely different. It took some adjustment, especially shifting a manual transmission left handed, but these adjustments were minor in comparison with my understanding of the rules of the road, how to react in the case of an incident, etc. Similarly, no amount of driving in snow and on ice, as stressful as it is, could have prepared me for the chaos that is driving in a big Brazilian city, even on the same side of the road! But still, I was issued a DL and allowed out on the streets, where I carefully and conscientiously acquired the additional skills I needed to be a successful driver there (including growing eyes in the back of my head).

I believe that a well trained DM can make similar adjustments and become a fine dive pro in a new environment regardless of where the DM training has taken place. It just appears to me that some people paint with a rather broad brush when they seem to suggest that no warm-water trained DM should be allowed to work in a cold water environment.

I like your analogy here Quero!

I find it interesting how many people seem to think diving/driving in whatever environment they come from requires/develops higher skill sets than elsewhere.

IMHO once skill sets are established the necessary time to adapt to new environs is likely to be determined by the adaptability of the individual. Some people may adapt with little effort others may struggle and others may not be able to adapt.

My answer is other.....

Leadership, responsibility, situational awareness, "reading" people well enough to anticipate problems, ability to think clearly under stress are not impacted by local conditions. Clearly the ability to function as a professional in the location where they DM must be developed prior to taking responsibility for the safety of others in that environment.

Just as a DM or dive Operator needs to assess the skills of their diving customers in the water... I believe divers also need to assess the skills of their DM's in the water. In the end we must dive wihin our abilities and never forget that we are responsible for keeping ourselves safe. We should not trust anyone based on what certificates they have or the experience they claim to have.

 

[Hepcat62]

I believe that a well trained DM can make similar adjustments and become a fine dive pro in a new environment regardless of where the DM training has taken place. It just appears to me that some people paint with a rather broad brush when they seem to suggest that no warm-water trained DM should be allowed to work in a cold water environment.

Still, I believe that while these can present real challenges, they should not disqualify a tropical DM with good people/leadership skills and with a willingness to acquire additional cold-water dive skills from seeking employment in a cold water location.

I think that most people in this thread are of the opinion that it's training PLUS diving experience that matters. If a great DM from a warm-water location comes out to - for example - Monterey, does 20-30 dives, works out the kinks and learns the area, then sure - why not? A couple of OW class assists later, and I'm sure they're at least a fine cold-water DM at that point and getting better all the time.

The only thing I think people are against is a DM with little or no familiarity with a certain area or type of diving performing in a DM/leadership capacity in that situation. Once they've got the experience, it's a non-issue.

To use your car example - a driving instructor from the US should reasonably be expected to spend at least a little while driving in the UK before acting as a driving instructor there. Obviously to get used to the big physical differences you described, but also to learn the local "rules of the road" - the more subtle things that make you a productive driver in the area.

 

[Quero]

I think that most people in this thread are of the opinion that it's training PLUS diving experience that matters.

The only thing I think people are against is a DM with little or no familiarity with a certain area or type of diving performing in a DM/leadership capacity in that situation. Once they've got the experience, it's a non-issue.

That's excellent, hepcat62, and it's a position I can endorse. In fact, I believe it's true independent of water temperature.

However, it's not what the survey asks, and I didn't read anything into it beyond what it says:

One should only DM in conditions similar to that in which they trained (or easier

We were asked to reinterpret the first answer choice, but not the second. If the second read One should only DM in conditions in which s/he can demonstrate expertise I would have marked only that one rather than wanting to mark all three. I simply hold that whether a DM gets his/her training in a warm-water location is not the real issue.

The answer choices are followed up in the OP by this sentence:

why would someone even think that they can travel to a warm-water destination and become a DM for all seasons?

People from all sorts of backgrounds travel to tropical locations for DM training, many of them cold-water divers to begin with (and I know this from personal experience). These DMTs have various motivations for traveling to a warm-water destination for their training, including cost, year-round availability of open water dive sites, intensive training over a shorter period rather than weekend training over a very long period, access to a greater number of students, etc. Simply because some DM trainees find that a warm-water training setting meets their professional development needs is no reason to assume they should not be able to look for jobs when they go back home to their cold water regions.

 

[hg frogman]

The typical limitation of "within the limits of training and experience" should apply to divemasters as they do to any other scuba certification.

A divemaster can use their qualification anywhere in the world. However, they would have a responsibility to acquaint themselves appropriately in a new environment before adopting the role of a dive guide.

Whilst there are no strict limitations or regulations governing this, I think that it would be relatively well self-regulated by the fact that dive shops wouldn't employ a divemaster who was inexperienced in local diving conditions.

I completely agree. Most dive shops (at least those who know what they are doing ) don't hire a DM with not enough logged dives (60 to start seems ridiculously low to me, apart from specific cases of local people employment), not enough experience of local conditions, and no accurate knowledge of the local dive sites.

Practically speaking, there is an implicit "hierarchy" of dive guides (who can be certified as DMs or instructors, that's not the point). The most experienced are considered as able to be "chief guide" on live-aboards, with the others being "deputy guide(s)" or even "trainee guide(s)" (despite being formally certified as DMs or instructors), when there is more than one guide on the live-aboard, which is not uncommon. In other words, dive centers normally dispatch work according to the guides' experience, and top level guides can be "chief guides" on live-aboards.

This thread has risen another issue that I find controversial : cold water vs warm water divers. Yes cold water has specific issues, eg numbness and buoyancy control, that make assistance more awkward (all else equal), but warm waters (eg Indonesia) can have their own issues as well (currents !). In both cases, the learning curve for diving/guiding in new/unusual conditions takes some time. In both cases, the possibilities of assistance have limits. Though cold water divers tend to consider they dive in more demanding environments, that may not always be the case. That depends. Let's stay humble in front of the vast seas.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I voted "other" because the foundational skills acquired during DM training are the same everywhere for recreational diving as they pertain to rescues, dive planning, acting professionally, etc.

No matter where a DM works, there should be a period of in-service training to familiarize the DM with his or her roles and responsibilities, the local diving conditions, and time to gain experience in the waters in which he or she will be working. Depending upon the experience level of the DM, this in-service training may take days or weeks. As Thal said, a cold water DM will more easily adapt to warm water than the reverse. It may take a few days to orientate a cold water DM to a resort operator's reefs, whereas, a DM with no cold water experience will need time to adapt.

If an experienced cold water diver takes DM training in warm water, that diver can bring home the DM skills to familiar waters and apply them after some in-service training with a local operator. The DM may even have learned some things to make diving easier and more enjoyable for cold water divers from the warm water training experience.

You don't necessarily have to be initially trained in the environment in which you will be diving. You may learn more when you are warm and comfortable rather than frigid and miserable. It's easier to adapt a lesson to cold water than it is to apply a lesson you may not have learned well.

Where all recreational DM courses fall short of needed training is in regard to technical diving. You don't have to be a technical diver to be a DM, but you should know how to rescue one. The technical community has grown to the point that I believe every DM should know how to properly rescue divers with multiple gas bottles or rebreathers. As a DM you are the lifeguard. If divers are allowed to patron your operation with tech gear, you need to know how to save them.

As the sport evolves, I think we'll see this as a natural occurrence.

 

[dbulmer]

Trace,
I disagree - if divers have opted to dive with twinsets, DSMB on a boat with a DM on board it is not the responsibility of the DM to look after those divers in the water. The DM may be entitled to suggest overall dive times to fit in with the schedule of the boat operator and advise on local conditions which I feel are legitimate reasons but your suggestion is a step too far for me if it was to become the norm for diving.

I suspect your interest lies in promoting improved rescue skills and better boat handling procedures which I agree with but I fear for the sport if this was entrusted to DMs as a matter of course.

I think the best trained DMs have enough common sense knowledge to handle this but they would be under enormous pressure by the less than scrupulous operators out there - I suspect it might become a legal minefield with dive operators opting for procedures suiting the least common denominator or opting for little to no operating procedures.

 

[pir8]

Frankly I would think the key for a WW trained DM to work in a cold environment is to find someone to hire them!!!