poll: DM everywhere?

[Crush]

A recent thread really surprised me. The question which I was left contemplating was: "can any DM, trained anywhere, DM everywhere?"

Before all the warm-water DMs start deluging me with comments such as "DMing is all about leadership and ascertaining abilities...," please stop. My opinion is that if you have only ever experienced crystal-clear warm waters with negligible thermal protection, you can't DM a group wearing 7mm neoprene in swell.

Further, why would someone even think that they can travel to a warm-water destination and become a DM for all seasons? Is there a line of advertising to that effect?

Enough of what I think - what do you think?

Edit: please interpret the poll question as "should any DM be a DM anywhere?" not "can any DM be a DM anywhere?" (as written). Thanks for making the point, TMHeimer.

 

[TMHeimer]

My answer is symantics. If you're talking about legality (that's how it reads), I believe a DM trained anywhere CAN DM anywhere (if with the same agency, etc.).

Question 2 is also correct. He shouldn't do this until he has experience in the other place. Nor should shops hire him until he has such experience. Thus, I voted "other".

 

[Peter Guy]

mp -- this general issue comes up a lot and always reminds me of a discussion I had with an instructor who was the skipper of a crewed charter in the BVI. He had a lot of experience in the BVI -- over 1500 dives -- but what he really had was about 15 dives 100 times each.

We had many talks over the period of the week we were on the boat and he couldn't imagine diving in the conditions we normally dive. He was also well aware that if he ever came to a cold water place, even with 1500+ dives, he'd be a newbie.

 

[Hepcat62]

Based on my assumptions about the intended meaning of the first 2 choices, I voted "other".

DM training IS primarily focused on leadership (and liability). Skills development during my DM course was less a product of specific training, and rather a by-product or having to perform in real-world situations. Necessity is the mother of invention, as they say. The diving skills I improved while doing DM training are not the skills that most recreational divers immediately think of...

Anyway, my point is this. I believe that a DM can successfully DM anywhere that they are well and truly capable of diving at a professional level. That is to say, they should have a significant amount of experience diving in that location or very similar conditions, and they should be very familiar with the locations they will be DMing at, relevant emergency procedures, etc.

I dive and DM in Monterey, CA. Assuming that's where we're diving, I would happily dive with an experienced Monterey diver who decided to do their DM in warm water and come back. I would feel "a bit hesitant, but probably okay" about diving with an experienced warm water diver whose only experience in Monterey was DM training (probably depending on who trained them). I would be very concerned diving with a DM who had little to no Monterey experience and did DM training in clear warm water.

 

[DevonDiver]

The typical limitation of "within the limits of training and experience" should apply to divemasters as they do to any other scuba certification.

A divemaster can use their qualification anywhere in the world. However, they would have a responsibility to acquaint themselves appropriately in a new environment before adopting the role of a dive guide.

Whilst there are no strict limitations or regulations governing this, I think that it would be relatively well self-regulated by the fact that dive shops wouldn't employ a divemaster who was inexperienced in local diving conditions.

 

[Quero]

I want to answer 'all of the above' but since I can't, I've clicked the first choice and am now expanding the answer.

1) A DM can DM everywhere. There is no need to go through the entire training regimen and process of becoming a DM again and again depending on regional conditions. The DM course itself is more about leadership and theoretical knowledge than it is about region-specific skills. In other words, when a diver goes pro to become a DM, it doesn't matter much where that pro training takes place. I can't see issuing restrictions on DM certs, say Warm Water DM or Shore Diver DM or Quarry DM.

2) That said, a DM should only work in conditions and in areas for which s/he has been trained and has experience. If I were to go DM at a cold water destination, I would need additional experience, and perhaps training, in order to exercise my profession there. I don't have a huge number of dry suit dives, for example, or surf entries, though I have some. I've got enough experience to take care of myself, but not enough to put myself out there as an expert, which is the role of a DM. Suppose a diver who comes from PNW goes to Utila for the DM course. This diver has lots of low vis, cold water, shore entry experience. Should s/he only be allowed to DM in places similar to Utila?

3) Other: If a DM showed up here looking for work, even if s/he had been trained on the other side of the country in similar conditions to what we have here, I would expect that DM to learn the dive sites before putting him/her in the position of leading fun divers around those sites. Along the same lines, I wouldn't jump on a liveaboard in Komodo and think I was qualified to lead customers around dive sites I'm barely familiar with even though I'm confident of my skills in that kind of big current environment.

 

[Crush]

We had many talks over the period of the week we were on the boat and he couldn't imagine diving in the conditions we normally dive. He was also well aware that if he ever came to a cold water place, even with 1500+ dives, he'd be a newbie.

Sort of reminds me of the grim reapers (beyond which I have not ventured) which remind us that OW training and gear is no substitute for cave training and gear. Without wanting to embarrass any specific poster, I believe that venturing into cold, deep water without, say, knowing how to deal with a free-flow is almost (but not quite) as stupid as going into a cave without training.

As per my original post, why would someone even think that they can travel to a warm-water destination and become a DM for all seasons? Is there some "dive warm, blue water and teach around the world" promotional video that I have missed out on?

 

[Quero]

Without wanting to embarrass any specific poster, I believe that venturing into cold, deep water without, say, knowing how to deal with a free-flow is almost (but not quite) as stupid as going into a cave without training.

But you see, simply because a DM was trained in a tropical location does not entail that s/he doesn't know how to deal with a free flow. This knowledge may even have been acquired at the Open Water level if the initial training was in some quarry in upstate New York. This is what I see as problematic with the poll. It mentions DM training, not diver experience. IMO it matters not too much where the DM was trained. What matters much more is what varied experiences the DM has in addition to his/her DM training.

 

[Crush]

But you see, simply because a DM was trained in a tropical location does not entail that s/he doesn't know how to deal with a free flow.

True.

What percent of divers, trained in tropical locations, even know what a free-flow is? Surprisingly few divers trained in cold-water locales have been taught how to deal with this situation. Recent posts indicate that DM candidates, having received the breadth of their experience in clear, warm waters, are having a hard time adjusting to the waters in which they will be assuming responsibility for the safety of others.

 

[Kern]

True.

What percent of divers, trained in tropical locations, even know what a free-flow is? Surprisingly few divers trained in cold-water locales have been taught how to deal with this situation. Recent posts indicate that DM candidates, having received the breadth of their experience in clear, warm waters, are having a hard time adjusting to the waters in which they will be assuming responsibility for the safety of others.

In relation to free flows I think you're getting a bit carried away. As most OW students don't know how to handle a reg. in a way that will prevent a pressure differential from developing within the 2nd stage, that will cause it to free flow, most will learn how to shut it down. Sure, they're unlikely to experience a freeze in either 1st or 2nd, but tell me, how do you deal with a frozen 1st or 2nd, in open water, with a single tank? Do you really think they couldn't figure out where was the best place to be if they couldn't shut a free flow down?