Pony Bottle / Spare Air

[awakefie]

Let me again say I'm not a fan of the SA.

With that said a recreational diver diving within OW limits (going for the 60ft limit here) these SA things will get them to the surface safely.

They are supposed to be diving within their NDL, which means that safety stops aren't required also this is still the realm where you can ascend at 60ft/min.

Even at a bad SAC rate 1.0ft³/min, you're going to have enough air to get to the surface.

For doing most reef dives were a lot of OW divers go, these things will work.

It has got to be safer than doing a CESA!

My thoughts exactly... but, I also wouldn't pay full price for one. (249.00 - 189.95)

Zeagle Rezort first stage from Scubatoys = 59.95
Oceanic Alpha 7 Octo = $55.00 off of flea bay or from a LDS $70.00 ish
19 Cuft Catalina from Leisure Pro = $115.95
Button Gauge from Leisure Pro = $20.00

19 cuft Pony: $265.90 (I know this is on the cheap)
Spare Air: $189.95 (This is what LP sells a SA for)
Diff: $75.95

So, if you going to buy something you've got to ask yourself if 16 extra cuft is worth $75.95?

I think that comes down to what capability your going after. I have no bias as I own both and use them for different purposes. Personally, I prefer a larger pony than 19 cuft, but that is personal preference and purpose based.

 

[Hatul]

You should make your desecion on spare air or pony bottle size depending on your diving.

For starters; Anyone who says you can only get one or two breaths from a spare air has never used one, they are good for an assecnt from 12m to the surface with a safty stop at 5m and have air still in them at the surface, I know I've tried this .

A pony bottle will do the exact same thing but from deeper depths.

So if you are only diving shallow, around the 12m mark most of the time a spare air is fine.

As you go deeper look at a pony bottle around the 6cf to 13cf size is good, you only need the bigger ones if you are pushing the no-deco limits or such like.

Pros of spare air:- small, no hoses to become entangled, easy to pass to a buddy if needed, cheap
Cons of spare air:- smaller air volume

Pros of pony bottle:- any size tank you like
Cons of pony bottle:- Extra 1st and 2nd stage regs to be serviced, more things to get tangled, much more expensive

Overall take a Solo diver course from your local dive shop and they will help you pick the gear best suited for your type of diving.

OK it may be fine testing in a calm situation knowing you have backup air. But in a real emergency you're bound to hyperventilate and have higher needs on top. I think we're underestimating the amount of increase in SAC under stress.

Adam

 

[paddler3d]

I have both and gear up based on the dive situation...
I guess, I just don't see a Spare Air and Pony as interchangeable pieces of gear.

I think that comes down to what capability your going after. I have no bias as I own both and use them for different purposes. Personally, I prefer a larger pony than 19 cuft, but that is personal preference and purpose based.

I agree 100%.

 

[paddler3d]

OK it may be fine testing in a calm situation knowing you have backup air. But in a real emergency you're bound to hyperventilate and have higher needs on top. I think we're underestimating the amount of increase in SAC under stress.

Adam

Does anyone have any idea what SAC rates are under stress?

I think my worst SAC rate has been .8-.9ft³/min and that was under heavy workload. I felt like I was huffing.

 

[ScubaTodd77]

I've heard that the spare air is good to have if you have a diver who is about to panic from an out of air situation coming at you for your regulator. You can hand off the spare air and get away. I was talking to a diver who had this happen to him, and he said he was sure the diver in distress would have snatched his primary and grabbed on to him. He was able to hand off the spare air and get away.

 

[paddler3d]

I've heard that the spare air is good to have if you have a diver who is about to panic from an out of air situation coming at you for your regulator. You can hand off the spare air and get away. I was talking to a diver who had this happen to him, and he said he was sure the diver in distress would have snatched his primary and grabbed on to him. He was able to hand off the spare air and get away.

So much for helping your fellow diver.

If an OOG diver snatches your primary, you should have the presence of mind to switch to your secondary and the two of you make a controlled ascent.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I've heard that the spare air is good to have if you have a diver who is about to panic from an out of air situation coming at you for your regulator. You can hand off the spare air and get away. I was talking to a diver who had this happen to him, and he said he was sure the diver in distress would have snatched his primary and grabbed on to him. He was able to hand off the spare air and get away.

I think this is only slightly nicer than shooting him/her and putting them out if their misery. Sorry, I know you mean nice. But a panicked diver is exactly the type who will suck the SA dry in 20 seconds and drown. I would never hand off a tiny air supply to another diver. Maybe a 19cu ft pony, nothing as small as a SA. Use a long hose if you want a little distance.

The whole idea behind a bailout bottle (lets say anything less than 13cu ft) is that if you have trained with it, you will not go full panic, just carefully reach for the bottle, start breathing at a low stress rate and head for the surface at 30FPM, blowing off deep stops for sure and in all probability the safety stop. It may not a good plan, but can be reasonable if you practice and follow the plan. A panicked buddy is not going to.

Once you start using a reasonable sized pony (actual sized based on depth and SAC), then you start using normal ascent protocols. You can also consider handing off to another diver since they also can use normal ascent protocols without going OOA twice. Personally, I back mount a pony, so I cannot hand off. I have a long hose, so I can give the other diver some distance if I want to. I control the ascent so we can avoid secondary issues to the original OOA. I still have the option of using my pony while donating air. My choice.

 

[tomfcrist]

I've heard that the spare air is good to have if you have a diver who is about to panic from an out of air situation coming at you for your regulator. You can hand off the spare air and get away. I was talking to a diver who had this happen to him, and he said he was sure the diver in distress would have snatched his primary and grabbed on to him. He was able to hand off the spare air and get away.

If the diver is coming at you for your reg, he's already panicked.......if you hand him your octo and he's still trying to drown you to save himself, kick him in the face and leave him there. I would never think of handing off my redundant air source. Poor gas planning on his part doesnt mean that you should die too.

That being said, i like slung pony bottles......they are great for rescues if you are DMing, and they could save your butt if a reg fails....the chances of having more than 0ne reg fail on a given dive is slim, although it could concievably happen.

 

[drdaddy]

Pony Cons:

They can cause foolish gas planning

They can cause foolish buddy planning

They can be empty when you think they are full

They can be turned off when you think they are turned on

They can be turned on when you think they are turned off

They can be mistaken for the primary and run out

The regulator can malfuntion

They can become entangled

They can be too small

They can be too big

Every one of these reasons has caused fatalities.

Almost all of these can be said for a diving in regular gear:

You should plan your gas according to your dive plan. Pick your buddy well and communicate, and plan your dive knowing the strengths and weaknesses of you and your buddy. Check the pressure of your tank. Turn on your tank - double check this with a breath while watching your gauge. Know which hose/regulator you're breathing (especially with tec ). Your regulator can malfunction - that's why you have redundant air = buddy and/or pony. Entanglement is always a risk in diving = organize know your gear and have whatever it takes not to panic and untangle. There's never enough air when you're on a great dive. Too big of a tank can stress and overweight you. Oh my goodness (here it is again) - You're going to die!!! Diving is dangerous, but it's better than being a bubble wrapped couch potato.

 

[Chris12day]

I believe that I will purchase and learn how to use a 19cf pony. I just hope that it doesn't eat too much or causes a problem for my neighbors due to the smell...

I just confirmed a Great Barrier Reef dive this July.........hopefully I will see minke whales....