Price???

[SilverSurfer7]

What are the component differences that make the price of a KISS so different from an Inspiration? They are both CCR right?

 

[zbskii]

The basic principle of both are the same, but the implementation is quite different. Try reading a few articles on rebreatherworld.com, but in a nutshell:
The inspiration is electronically controled. There is an electronically operated valve on the oxygen supply which is opened by the computer when the pp02 of the breathing loop falls below the set point.

The kiss is a manually controlled CCR. There is a mass flow valve that 'leaks' in a small amount of oxygen; less than the divers metabolic rate. There is also a button which manually adds a "squirt" of oxygen. There are 3 seperate oxygen sensors hooked up to three seperate displays.

In a nutshell, on the kiss YOU are the computer, in the inspiration there's a computer doing the work for you. Note I've never dived either units, though I do own a sport kiss.

 

[caveseeker7]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

In addition, the Classic Kiss (about the same scrubber size, size and weight of the Inspo) comes without the 3 sensors, 2 tanks and BC/harness, all of which are included with the Inspiration. If you add those items to the $5,600 price tag the price difference is quite a bit less.

Finally, the Inspiration comes with either Classic electronics (dual handsets with pO2 readouts for the controllers) and the Vision electronics (single handset, HUD and dive timer) that allow for optional nitrox or trimix deco software and the TempStick scrubber monitor. The latter, especially loaded, is considerably more expensive than either the Classic Inspiration or Classic Kiss.

 

[Camerone]

Finally, the Inspiration comes with either Classic electronics (dual handsets with pO2 readouts for the controllers) and the Vision electronics (single handset, HUD and dive timer) that allow for optional nitrox or trimix deco software and the TempStick scrubber monitor. The latter, especially loaded, is considerably more expensive than either the Classic Inspiration or Classic Kiss.

If you really want to compare the Vision electronics on an Inspiration or an Evolution to the KISS, though, you also should really factor in the cost of a constant PO2 computer, external cell & holder, and the plumbing to put it into the loop. If you get a trimix VR3, cell adapter, and (quite literally) the plumbing bits for a KISS loop, the difference is again quite small...

 

[Henry]

The basic principle of both are the same, but the implementation is quite different. Try reading a few articles on rebreatherworld.com, but in a nutshell:
The inspiration is electronically controled. There is an electronically operated valve on the oxygen supply which is opened by the computer when the pp02 of the breathing loop falls below the set point.

The kiss is a manually controlled CCR. There is a mass flow valve that 'leaks' in a small amount of oxygen; less than the divers metabolic rate. There is also a button which manually adds a "squirt" of oxygen. There are 3 seperate oxygen sensors hooked up to three seperate displays.

In a nutshell, on the kiss YOU are the computer, in the inspiration there's a computer doing the work for you. Note I've never dived either units, though I do own a sport kiss.

Just out of curiosity, how is it that you own a Sport KISS but have never dove one?

 

[caveseeker7]

If you really want to compare the Vision electronics on an Inspiration or an Evolution to the KISS, though, you also should really factor in the cost of a constant PO2 computer, external cell & holder, and the plumbing to put it into the loop.

Not really, as like the solenoid, its power supply and controller a deco-integrated computer is not needed. I should probably factor in a couple of bucks for constant pO2 deco tables though.

The point of my post was to show the differences between the units that are mirrored in the different prices. :11doh:

Henry, I owned a Sport Kiss for ten long days before I dove it. :11:

 

[Mr.X]

Not really, as like the solenoid, its power supply and controller a deco-integrated computer is not needed. I should probably factor in a couple of bucks for constant pO2 deco tables though.

The point of my post was to show the differences between the units that are mirrored in the different prices. :11doh:

Henry, I owned a Sport Kiss for ten long days before I dove it. :11:

Hey Stefan,

How did you like the SK compared to the PRISM? X

 

[caveseeker7]

I like them both for the same reason, they're very simple rebreathers, very transparent in their operation.

Advantages the Sport Kiss are the quick access to all the parts, making setup and maintainance very user friendly. Properly packing the scrubber on the PRISM takes me about as long as setting up the entire Sport Kiss. I like the ss case, I mounted it to a ss bp and Oxycheq wing. That makes a very streamlined rig, easy to dive in a current. Also allowed me to drop about 20 lbs of lead compared to what I used with the PRISM. Last but not least, I really like the BOV.

The PRISM is way ahead in regards to WOB, even in the ideal position the SK doesn't come all that close. Here is where the radial scrubber shines, and of course duration. Makes the packing effort worth it.

Gauges are pretty much a draw, the SK uses powered displays but has as much redundancy as you can get, and shows cell values side by side. Bit hyperactive though, I could do without that last digit. Calibrating on both is by trim pot and screw driver, the PRISM is a bit more convenient as you have the trim pot separate from the display and thus can look at both at the same time. Makes it easier than using the screw driver on the back of the unit. I really miss the HUD, though.

Keeping the pO2 stable (when using the PRISM manually) isn't any more difficult than doing that with the KISS valve, you just add gas more often.

Having the gases on opposite sides sucks.

Due to the scrubber design, CL drains and low WOB the PRISM is a better RB for deep diving in my opinion, but the Sport Kiss works great for what it was designed.

I enjoy diving either one, and still want to get a PRISM.

 

[Mr.X]

I like them both for the same reason, they're very simple rebreathers, very transparent in their operation.

Advantages the Sport Kiss are the quick access to all the parts, making setup and maintainance very user friendly. Properly packing the scrubber on the PRISM takes me about as long as setting up the entire Sport Kiss. I like the ss case, I mounted it to a ss bp and Oxycheq wing. That makes a very streamlined rig, easy to dive in a current. Also allowed me to drop about 20 lbs of lead compared to what I used with the PRISM. Last but not least, I really like the BOV.

The PRISM is way ahead in regards to WOB, even in the ideal position the SK doesn't come all that close. Here is where the radial scrubber shines, and of course duration. Makes the packing effort worth it.

Gauges are pretty much a draw, the SK uses powered displays but has as much redundancy as you can get, and shows cell values side by side. Bit hyperactive though, I could do without that last digit. Calibrating on both is by trim pot and screw driver, the PRISM is a bit more convenient as you have the trim pot separate from the display and thus can look at both at the same time. Makes it easier than using the screw driver on the back of the unit. I really miss the HUD, though.

Keeping the pO2 stable (when using the PRISM manually) isn't any more difficult than doing that with the KISS valve, you just add gas more often.

Having the gases on opposite sides sucks.

Due to the scrubber design, CL drains and low WOB the PRISM is a better RB for deep diving in my opinion, but the Sport Kiss works great for what it was designed.

I enjoy diving either one, and still want to get a PRISM.

Thanks for the write-up. I was curious since I haven't tried the SK yet. It seems like an easy enough/workable design, although I would implement more protection and reinforcement into the pod system. However, given that it has a certain niche it makes sense. I must say that I do like the PRISM also. It certainly is a nice breather and the CL drain the Peter put on there years before anyone else did was a smart design element. Best X

 

[caveseeker7]

It seems like an easy enough/workable design, although I would implement more protection and reinforcement into the pod system. However, given that it has a certain niche it makes sense.

If you look in the Rebreather World Kiss gallery you'll find some pictures of people adding bars to the Sport Kiss. Thanks to the boxy design it's quite easy, two bolts to attach it to the box, another two to hold it in place. They also make good handlebars to lift and move the unit. If you use 3 ltr tanks the pods are protected fairly well on the side, or the bar's width on the side could be adapted as I believe Decoweenie did.

But for recreational diving (40 m, no deco/overhead) they're fine and a real alternative to SCRs.

I must say that I do like the PRISM also. It certainly is a nice breather and the CL drain the Peter put on there years before anyone else did was a smart design element.

Am not sure who actually came up with that drain design, but it was first used on Undersea Technologies' UT240. Stuart Clough and Pete Ready go way back, they worked together on the Carmellan Research rebreathers (modified MK series) and Stuart is the S in PRISM.

Tracy Robinette also uses that drain design on the Divematics Shadow Pack III, and I gather at one point or another was also involved with UT.