Question for DM's & anyone who works on a boat....

[RJP]

Put a snap bolt on each side of your upper D rings, they will not be in your way & hook each fin thru the finger loop of your spring straps....fins will hang just right & be out of the way...

In general, I'm not prone to diving with extra stuff hanging off me that I don't need for my dive. This would include sporting two dangling bolt snaps for the entirety of my dive who's sole purpose is to solve a problem at the end of my dive that doesn't exist.

Further, even if I was inclinded to clip my fins off in this fashion I have to imagine that they are hardly "out of the way."

I suppose I can see a use when it comes to shore/surf entries. But on a boat dive I can't see it. If I need my fins, I need them on my feet. If I don't need them on my feet, I surely don't need them clipped to my chest, so I'll just hand/toss them up onto the boat.

PS - my spring straps don't have finger loops, because finger loops on spring straps also solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[diver 85]

I think we need to remember that what works best in one area might not work best in another area. In general, I think the local boat operators are going to know and utilize the procedures that work best for their area.

I don't any problems with removing fins in the water. The only issue is that if your strap breaks or you drop your arms while fighting the ladder, you could lose a fin.

On one dive @ the FG's, I quickly decided to run my fins up my arms & did not hook them onto my BC clips----guess what, one of the straps came unsnapped during all the surging & it came off 'floating away'---I actually never realized it......DM Dickie was there on the platform watching me(us) board & simply dove in, snatched the slowly sinking fin, swam to & grabbed the tag line, & made a safe ladder exit right behind me----many thanks were given to Dickie.......btw, these DM's Dickie, Kurt, & Mikey on the Fling know their stuff & are a big help on windy/ruff trips.......

 

[diver 85]

In general, I'm not prone to diving with extra stuff hanging off me that I don't need for my dive. This would include sporting two dangling bolt snaps for the entirety of my dive who's sole purpose is to solve a problem at the end of my dive that doesn't exist.

Further, even if I was inclinded to clip my fins off in this fashion I have to imagine that they are hardly "out of the way."

I suppose I can see a use when it comes to shore/surf entries. But on a boat dive I can't see it. If I need my fins, I need them on my feet. If I don't need them on my feet, I surely don't need them clipped to my chest, so I'll just hand/toss them up onto the boat.

PS - my spring straps don't have finger loops, because finger loops on spring straps also solve a problem that doesn't exist.

whatever especially since you seem to know it all.......Out of the 150+ dives made in those conditions that day & a half, no one did as you said.....guess being unique is what some folks strive for........

 

[RJP]

whatever especially since you seem to know it all.......Out of the 150+ dives made in those conditions that day & a half, no one did as you said.....guess being unique is what some folks strive for........

The original question was asked of DMs & anyone who works on a boat, which is the perspective from which I was answering. Specifically, as mentioned previously/above, I'm providing perspective about the way we dive here in NJ, where the boat ladders are universally "fins on" ladders.

I'm not saying I know it all (far from it) or that anyone should do what we do here when diving someplace else where typical conditions/gear/boats differ.

I'm simply telling you WHY we do it the way we do here, and suggesting that that if you are diving someplace where the ladders are designed to "keep your fins on" and local conditions suggest "keep your fins on" and the boat crew says "keep your fins on" you just MIGHT consider keeping your fins on.

Or you could slide them up to your elbow or clip them off on your chest d-rings if you like. I'm sure some "know it all" crew member will be happy to jump in and fish you out.

 

[diver 85]

The original question was asked of DMs & anyone who works on a boat, which is the perspective from which I was answering. Specifically, as mentioned previously/above, I'm providing perspective about the way we dive here in NJ, where the boat ladders are universally "fins on" ladders.

I'm not saying I know it all (far from it) or that anyone should do what we do here when diving someplace else where typical conditions/gear/boats differ.

I'm simply telling you WHY we do it the way we do here, and suggesting that that if you are diving someplace where the ladders are designed to "keep your fins on" and local conditions suggest "keep your fins on" and the boat crew says "keep your fins on" you just MIGHT consider keeping your fins on.

Or you could slide them up to your elbow or clip them off on your chest d-rings if you like. I'm sure some "know it all" crew member will be happy to jump in and fish you out.

sounds good to me.......If you'll read back all of my posts on this thread, I've always stated 'The Fling'-even gave a picture of it on my 1st reply & stated that's the way they(the crew) want you to do it in heavy seas & 5 knot currents..........have a good one.........GEAUX TIGERS............

 

[fisheyeview]

The original question was asked of DMs & anyone who works on a boat, which is the perspective from which I was answering. Specifically, as mentioned previously/above, I'm providing perspective about the way we dive here in NJ, where the boat ladders are universally "fins on" ladders.

I dive off of a boat occassionally that has a "fins on" ladder. I do leave my fins on when diving off of that boat.

 

[String]

Your means of propulsion is your arms as you pull your way to the ladder on the rope that hangs out from it. More reliable than fins, works in virtually any speed of current without wearing you out.

Nice if you happen to land within arms reach of it. If you don't however, you're screwed.

Swimming with arms doesn't work with full kit, drysuit, heavy weight and so on.

 

[String]

I really hate going over the same points over and over again, but to spare any impressionable divers the BS that you're perpetrating, I'll go through this once more. I'm gonna do this piece by piece.

You've lost the plot entirely.

Do you have a magic god switch on your boat that can magically make all swell, wind and current align with each other at the boat when needed? If not what you're on about is utter bull****.

There is a tag line on the ladder and on the swim platform that divers grab onto to remove their fins, and pull themselves to the ladder with.

Not always and with tide vs wind in different directions a line if present can often be dragged under the boat, into the boat or any other random direction. Also a chance it can get tangled on the prop.

We use the winds to help us by blowing the boat away from the diver. If you approach a diver with the wind at your back, once he grabs the tag line, he will be dragged behind the boat and therefore in absolutely no danger of being crushed, whacked, or otherwise injured by the boat, the platform, or the ladder.

Yes that works well unless you have a current coming from a different direction that twists the boat. Or a swell coming from a 3rd direction again with a similar effect.
Wind only is easy to deal with, a current perpendicular to the wind of similar strength and that doesnt work. If the wind is too strong the boat gets blown away from the diver before he can reach it. Plenty of reasons why that only works in select situations.

Assuming the boat and the diver are on the surface of the same water, they are equally affected by currents, and therefore this doesn't matter at all.

Untrue. Depends on the draught of the boat, whether its exposed to the current bow on or side on, whether the diver is floating on his back or vertical in the water so yes it matters.

Groundswell causes very long, flat waves that result in very slow and gentle rises and falls. They certainly don't push boats around, except for in the surf zone.

Again rubbish. Groundswell is far from the only swell at sea. Quite often to get short tall chop or large rolling swells. Any upwellings caused by water and current hitting a reef that comes up from the bottom, the bottom topography and so on can cause swell to come from several directions even at the same time and different type.



doesn't matter.


Helps keep the diver out from under the boat.


Doesn't matter.


It is correct that the boat cannot be stopped from moving up and down relative to the diver, but the boat can be kept from being on or over the diver.

Look, I'm not sitting in some armchair theorizing about this, I do it for a living.

You aren't the only one.

I will concede that my arguments are dependant on diving from a boat with a captain who knows what he's doing, but if you change that part of the equation, I think you would have to re-title the argument "The dangers of diving from boats piloted by captains who don't know what they are doing in rough seas." instead of "The lunacy of being in the water without fins on".

Even a captain that knows what he's doing doesn't have the magic switch described above to make all the factors line up.

 

[Scubakevdm]

I'm sorry, someone actually called me about your absurd post. It is quite obvious that you have no clue at all about what you're talking about.

I don't need a God switch on my boat that makes wind the only thing I have to worry about when we pick up divers on a rough day, God has that switch, its called the very windy switch, and he has already thrown it, which is why it's rough in the first place. Duh. I'm sure now we're going to get into some ridiculous discussion about how the wind isn't what makes it rough, and that the Canary Islands could implode and create a giant wave or something, but whatever. It's the wind that makes it rough.

Alot of the stuff that you've written is just plain weird. Anyway, like Ive said this isn't theory for me, I've picked up divers in rough seas this way many, many, many times. So far every single time a diver has come of the tag line or the ladder there haven't been any freak currents that overpower the 25 knot winds, affected the boat only or the diver only, and swept him under the boat. I'm sure that there are folks on this board who have been with us when it's rough who have come off the ladder or line that could offer some first hand accounts about where they ended up relative to the boat, but I'm not sure that it would mean much to you. I guess I'll just have to accept the fact that in your mind I'm just an irresponsible operator, subjecting divers to terrifying and perilous fins off lunacy.

 

[ReefHound]

Nice if you happen to land within arms reach of it. If you don't however, you're screwed.

Swimming with arms doesn't work with full kit, drysuit, heavy weight and so on.

Do you tend to fall off the ladder a lot? I don't think normal procedure is to fall off so removing fins, looping over arms, and pulling yourself into the ladder by the line would work most of the time. If you fall off then grab the line and try again. If you fall away from the line and need to swim to it, simply put your fins back on. Although on the boats in my area like the Spree or Fling, a DM would simply grab the line with a pole hook and move it over to you.