Question for old timers - NAUI OW class, early 1970s

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Back in 77 when I was certified we had our masks knocked off and air turned off during our OW check out dives for the Basic Scuba PADI cert.
This often comes up in these types of discussions.

In his history of NAUI, Al Tillman (NAUI instructor #1) talks about the meeting of instructors in Houston in 1960, the major event in the founding of NAUI. Tillman was then the director of the Los Angeles County program, and he had learned his instructional technique at the Scripps Institute, the place that invented formal scuba training. In that Houston session, instructors from across the nation demonstrated instructional techniques with the goal of establishing minimum standards for instruction. Tillman and others from his organization were very surprised to see some of the instructors using harassment, like removing masks and shutting off air, as a part of their instruction. They had never seen that done before. NAUI did not include that in their minimum standards or their procedures, and Tillman and others felt it primarily benefited the instructors' need for amusement.

They did not forbid it though, and to this day NAUI allows instructors to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they meet the established minimum requirements. As time went on, agencies discouraged or disallowed the practice. Even with the agencies that disallow it, though, you will still find individual instructors who will do the same thing.

This brings me to the main point of the post: the fact that certain activities were a part of you instruction in the old days does not mean it was part of everyone's instruction in the old days. Harassment and difficult physical challenges (like doing pushups in full gear) were indeed part of some training programs, but they were not part of all training programs. It all depended (and to some extent still does) on the individual instructor.
 
Did it in an LA County course back in the 60s. Instructor would also sneak up on us in the pool and turn off our air, pull the reg out of our mouth or take our mask off.
 
Did it in an LA County course back in the 60s. Instructor would also sneak up on us in the pool and turn off our air, pull the reg out of our mouth or take our mask off.
I did the LA County course in 1970, they did not turn off our air
 
They did not forbid it though, and to this day NAUI allows instructors to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they meet the established minimum requirements.

Good Morning John. I like the History of NAUI article that you referenced quite a bit. It is required reading during my Instructor Training Course to become a NAUI Instructor. I would make a comment to the above quote. While NAUI Instructors do have the freedom to add certain skill and knowledge requirements to the courses that they teach, especially if they feel that it will enhance the quality of the course, they are not allowed to do whatever they want as long as it meets the established minimum requirements. We even have a portion of our Instructor training dedicated to this concept. The Instructors actions must be within the realm of what a "reasonable" Instructor would do and must withstand the scrutiny of NAUI as a training agency and even potential legal repercussions. So if the Instructor feels as such, then he/she is allowed to add it to their course. There are boundaries and limits to what an Instructor can do.
 
Guess you can no longer turn off a students air during training due to possible litigation.

The Instructors actions must be within the realm of what a "reasonable" Instructor would do and must withstand the scrutiny of NAUI as a training agency and even potential legal repercussions.

I should have been more clear on this point. Yes, this is absolutely true, and it is connected to the other quote above.

If you are an instructor, have an accident during a class, and are sued, you will be challenged to show that what you did was safe and "reasonable." If what you did was part of the established course standards and procedures of an agency with a long history like NAUI's, , and if you performed it as trained, you are pretty darned safe. If what you did is not part of the established course standards and procedures, the onus will be on you to show that what you did was safe, and the plaintiff will be challenging your judgment in doing something that is not standard procedure. If what you did is banned by some or most agencies on the theory that it is unsafe, then you are really going to have a hard time proving that what you did was safe, and you can pretty much count on losing the case.
 
Did this exercise in a NAUI class in 1994 in Montgomery College in MD.
 
Not sure if this is the correct forum or not.

A friend in her 60s got certified through NAUI in the early 1970s. She said the following was part of the class:

You went down to the deep end of the pool, took all your scuba gear off, and swam back to the surface. You then swam back down, put all your gear back on, and then back to the surface.

She was surprised that wasn't part of the SDI OW class I'm in the midst of (check out dives in about three weeks). I asked my instructors about it today. They said it's not done anymore as students died while doing it. Any clue when that skill was dropped? I was just curious. The thought scared the heck out of me!

Not quite that old, but yes I got my basic certification in the late 1970's (it was most of 40 years ago). Scuba classes back then were 6 weeks long, and you got really familiar with the equipment. Taking it all off, swimming to the surface (exhaling all the way), going back down and putting it back on was also a common teaching technique. It proved you were comfortable with both the equipment and the water. If anyone died doing that they would not have passed the basic requirements (medical certification is required). It is probably an urban legend and totally false. NAUI (emphasizes education and safety) was the only game in town back then. Then PADI (a.k.a. Put Another Dollar In) was created followed by the rest of the profit seekers. Diving properly and safely requires specific knowledge and physical capability. It is not for everyone. Education and Safety have been sacrificed in favor of profit for Dive Shop income. Keep learning beyond Basic diving if you go anywhere deeper than 20 ft of fresh water.
 
Taking it all off, swimming to the surface (exhaling all the way), going back down and putting it back on was also a common teaching technique. It proved you were comfortable with both the equipment and the water. If anyone died doing that they would not have passed the basic requirements (medical certification is required). It is probably an urban legend and totally false.
An SSI instructor did this at the University of Alabama just a few years ago, and a student did die--held his breath on ascent.
 
I did my NAUI course in '74, and became an Instructor in '78. When I took the course, we did that "doff and done". We also did it "blacked out" for a little extra challenge. I don't know if it was mandatory or not, but by the time I was teaching it was not. However, most students were able to do it, and it was a real confidence builder.

We also did things like jumping off a diving board with all of our gear bundled and in our arms, including air turned off. The trick was to hit the bottom of the pool and reassemble you gear. All good fun.

I have head stories of NAUI ITCs in Canada where candidates did a similar exercise but jumped off a railway bridge, dropped 15' or so into a river and reassembled gear. This was in Peterborough, ON. I suspect it's true.

I never heard of anyone dying while doing any of these skills, but I think they were a fantastic way to build confidence, although the practical uses were minimal!

When I was teaching, the course was 8 - 12 weeks long, and included as many as 8 or 9 OW dives, including a night dive. Folks knew how to dive at the end of it. These days, it seems that the main purpose of an OW I course is to lay the groundwork for the 47 courses yet to come... :-(
8 or 9 OW dives including a night dive? Sounds like the NAUI Advanced Dive to me. Not being able to swim 440 yards in under 10 minutes (usually 10:15 - 10:30 for me) has kept me from being an Instructor but I have had all the other training and skills.
 

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