Question of the day?

[grumpie]

How many of you are fire dept based. Do you do rescue only or do you help out with L.E.A.,After you have taken your classes do you retrain regulaly or kind of let it slip into the back ground.
If you are the training officer, do you take your classes and expand them and make each one a little more diffcult. Do you take and let some one else do the leading and planning.
One that I like is, you have a 140 water tower, there is a inspector inside the tower in a rubber raft check the inside of the tower as the water level drops a whirlpool forms and sucks the raft down the stand pipe.
You have to make a deep dive and what else do you have for problems? Also this could be a accident or it could be a crime scence.
grumpie...........

 

[Gary D.]

I’m going to respond with somewhat of a different twist on team structure.

We are a LEO team, with our token Fireman onboard. We operate as if the LEO’s and Fire/Med were the same department. We don’t have a separation of power, turf wars, juvenile bickering or anything that would make the PSD job more difficult. Sure we get upset with each other from time to time but we work it out and get over it. We are one team. It just so
happens that we operate from the Sheriff’s Department and are Deputies.

In Idaho the Sheriff, by law, is responsible for all rescues, searches and anything along that line.

If you read some of my prior posts about what Fire/Med does to assist us it will amaze some people.

In an operation they will, without being asked, assign someone to help each diver in any way they can be it handle or pack gear or tend us.

The have formed human chains to get us over a cliff and down to the water prior to ropes being rigged. They make sure that there is adequate medical equipment and personal to take care of a victim(s) but that will not over ride them watching out for our safety.

On another operation we thought we might have two victims. When I came up they had 8 med stations set up. I asked ***; we can’t have that many victims. They responded with, you have 6 divers and there is one station for each of them.

I could go on and on until SB tells me I haven’t got any more typing room but some of my prior posts can speak for themselves. We are one cooperative team. Are we a LEO team? Yes we are. Are we a Fire Team? Yes we are. We are one big multi agency team that works very well together. This is what all the other teams need to strive for. It doesn’t happen overnight and it takes work but it makes for a very effective group.

Last week I was told that one of our Fire Departments just had a monster Cascade trailer built and they were going to certify a couple of us on it’s operation. I forgot about it until today when I got my copy of the operation manual for it. If we have an operation we can either go get the trailer or they will deliver it to where ever we need it. It will be used on a first come first serve basis but if they need it more than we do we will deliver it to their scene without delay.

We keep training and have some certified PSD instructors on the team, which helps. Training should never stop. If it does go park your butt in a recliner and watch the TV news.

Reference your water tower scenario.
IMHO, should something like that happen the risk/benefit factor would not warrant a PSD dive. In that case I think a better option would be to possibly use submersible pumps or siphon to remove the water and then do the “Criminal” investigation under dryer and safer conditions. This WOULD BE a criminal investigation until proven otherwise.

You could also start opening water faucets down the line and see where he pops out. You could also get a politician to blow on the other end of the pipe and shoot the inspector back out. I’m kidding Ok!

Gary D.

 

[grumpie]

When you pull up a training form and there has been no items in over 30 days it strikes me as interesting. I thought that I might stir up the waters a bit. I teach diving to 4 SO and a FD.
All water accidents are covered by SO in the county that it happen in.
Its interesting that there are only the same few doing posts on a very important thing like training. I would think that other people would have questions or issues on training.
I wonder if they are afraid to ask, because they might be laughed at. In my classes there are no dumb questions only things that I may not have covered well enough or some thing that I did not understand when they ask a question.
grumpie........

 

[Gary D.]

I think what might be happening is we are posting them in the main forum and not here. Keep stiring the pot.

Gary D.

 

[grumpie]

Good evening, no body has told me how we are going to get our inspecter out of the stand pipe yet. Some poor old lady is going to be real upset when a part of that man comes out of her washing machine.
Let see its 140 feet high, so that makes it a deep dive. how high above sea level are you? Its a confined space, so it will take at least 3 divers.
come on guys lets get with it. You never no when it might happen to your group. I did not think much about airplane crashes until I did 2 in five days with 5 souls on board.
grumpie........

 

[bridgediver]

hey grumpie

We're fire based and we do work for the local and surrounding LE agencies when they ask.

Wasn't sure your question was a serious one... 2 things for us.
1) We don't dive deep
2) Our one and only water tower got turned into a restaurant... really!
So I guess we'd call someone else (if the restaurant wasn't up there).

I also understand what you mean by the limited exchange on here. What I've found is the differences in the teams are vast. Without common ground its really hard to understand where guys are coming from in terms of how they run. Its hard to remember who does what and how.
All that aside there have been a few good discussions but most kind of fizzle out unfortunately

 

[Gary D.]

Good evening, no body has told me how we are going to get our inspecter out of the stand pipe yet. Some poor old lady is going to be real upset when a part of that man comes out of her washing machine.

grumpie........

I did and there wouldn't be a reason to risk a dive. Tell the old gal that he will go right into the wash cycle if she uses a softener.

Gary D.

 

[james croft]

I did and there wouldn't be a reason to risk a dive. Tell the old gal that he will go right into the wash cycle if she uses a softener.

Gary D.

LMAO. Good one!

 

[BOOM BOOM]

One that I like is, you have a 140 water tower, there is a inspector inside the tower in a rubber raft check the inside of the tower as the water level drops a whirlpool forms and sucks the raft down the stand pipe.
You have to make a deep dive and what else do you have for problems? Also this could be a accident or it could be a crime scence.
grumpie...........

Ok , for fun I will bite on the hook. first off for those that have working knowledge of a water tower. An inspector will not be in a rubber raft. If in fact he has no crew with him and lock out tag out procedures have been ignored ( no chance) but OK. this guy decides that he is going to do some NDT on his own. Its a crime scene by all accounts and yep here it comes ....... OSHA will be there ASAP.
No dive team needed this type of delta P has already crushed and drown the idiot.
As far as recovering the remains , He is not in the "stand pipe" all water towers have a nice strainer on the release side and the diameter is larger then the body, He may look like he went through a garlic press but he should be all together for the most part. Some have a flapper like valve that will close with any significant change in the take pressure.
If for some crazy reason the municipality decided to allow you to make the dive for recovery , you are now going to need a chamber and If in fact you could get to the body your divers will suffer the same fate if the tower had not been shut down and the pressure in the effluent side was not equalized.

 

[Gary D.]

Ok , for fun I will bite on the hook. first off for those that have working knowledge of a water tower. An inspector will not be in a rubber raft. If in fact he has no crew with him and lock out tag out procedures have been ignored ( no chance) but OK. this guy decides that he is going to do some NDT on his own. Its a crime scene by all accounts and yep here it comes ....... OSHA will be there ASAP.
No dive team needed this type of delta P has already crushed and drown the idiot.
As far as recovering the remains , He is not in the "stand pipe" all water towers have a nice strainer on the release side and the diameter is larger then the body, He may look like he went through a garlic press but he should be all together for the most part. Some have a flapper like valve that will close with any significant change in the take pressure.
If for some crazy reason the municipality decided to allow you to make the dive for recovery , you are now going to need a chamber and If in fact you could get to the body your divers will suffer the same fate if the tower had not been shut down and the pressure in the effluent side was not equalized.

Hey BoomBoom, you have the solution to Grumpie’s scenario right in your avatar.

Cross connect the sewer and water lines then put a seatbelt and shoulder harness on the kid, stuff him with refries and STAND BACK. :mooner: With one good blast or two here comes the inspector AND the K-mart coffin out of the tower looking like Mary Poppins.

I don’t think I’d be drinking the water any time soon.:shakehead :no

Gary D.