Question regarding emergency removal of SCUBAPRO Classic Unlimited

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If, for some reason, I couldn't cut it or get your arms out of it I would drop the weights and release your tank from the cam band. This would make it as light as possible, which would help get you out of the water easier.

I use that BC now (haven't put the BP/W on in over a year, I think)... Why would the BC need to be removed? I would think the BC and the buoyancy should be retained until the diver is safely out of the water? Once that occurs, then the BC can be deflated and it should come off easily...

One of the BIG drawbacks with that BC is that it is not adjustable. It may become too tight in a 7mm suit and too loose in a t-shirt. Most other BC's have adjustable shoulder straps that allow fine tuning of the fit to the suit thickness.
 
Yes, I looked up the BC before commenting. The portion running over the shoulder is what I called a strap, or you can call it part of the BC. I have never tried to cut the fabric on a BC, but I donn't think it would be that difficult with a sharp blade.

IT doesn't have shoulder straps. It is not EASY to get off in the water, but I can get it off and put it back on.

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I am surprised that none of the old timers here gave a solution.Cutting it off is not a solution,would take too much time and effort. Just have victim on their back,face up on surface and slide the bcd down under them towards their feet.
 
Hi,

I am a 49 year old woman who weighs 135 lb and is 5'3 tall. I have a SCUBAPRO Classic Unlimited in size small. It fit perfectly.

I am currently working on my PADI rescue diver training. When I was the "victim" in rescue scenarios this past weekend, the two gentlemen I was teamed with could NOT get the BCD off of me, inflated, on the surface, while giving rescue breaths and towing. (simulated rescue breaths) I became concerned. Other people's BCDs have quick release clips on the chest to ditch their BCDs. Mine would not come over my shoulders, nor would my arms pull through the arm holes. I started searching for information on removing my BCD in an emergency, and did not find anything useful.

To give you more information, we were doing this at the Blue Heron Bridge in Riviera Beach, FL in about 8 feet of water. The water temp was about 74 degrees and I was wearing a 7 mm full wetsuit, with a 3/5 hooded vest, 3 mm gloves and 20 lb of lead. 8 lb in each front pocket and 2 lb in each trim pocket. They dropped the front pockets, but did not attempt the ditch the weight in the trim pockets. Please advise me regarding the BEST way to remove this BCD in an emergency.

Thank you,

Amy Rabinowitz

Amy,

Let me address three points. One for you, one matter of opinion, and one for the group.

///

Part 1. The theory.

First of all, given the way they teach the tow-and-peal in rescue (which I will get back to in a minute), I'll suggest that getting that BCD off in the water is a four step process that is similar to the don/doff exercise you do in the OW course. Let me break it down.

1) step one will involve unstrapping the chest and waist straps and to push the victim's BCD *UP* (or the victim down) as high as it can go. This can easily be achieved by pushing the TANK *up* toward the shoulders with the rescuer's left hand.
2) step two involves removing any wrist mounted instruments like a computer or compass from the victim's (probably left) arm. This is just to make step 3 easier.
3) step three is to fold the victim's arm up (wrist to shoulder) and then to feed the arm through the opening in the BCD and to push it through via the elbow (possibly holding the strap open with the other hand) so that the arm is now free of the BCD. In a comatose victim, this could (I believe) theoretically dislocate the shoulder but given the circumstances that's a minor concern if the victim's life is at stake.
4) step four involves pushing the entire set down under the water and allowing it to roll off to the right at which point removing the other arm is a matter of pulling the set away from the victim.

I know for a fact that this works because I've practiced it on buddies wearing continuous webbing harnesses with heavy double sets. It is, however, not the *easiest* way.

The *easiest* way is to take a knife and cut the BCD at the shoulder. This, of course, assumes you have a knife able to cut through the BCD quicker than what I just described.

///

Part 2. The real world

That said, in a real world scenario, no rescue diver is going to have the training that I just described and they're simply not going to get you out of that gear. I have (alas) real world experience with rescuing a comatose diver and even with gear that has quick releases etc. it's *really* *REALLY* hard to get the victim out of their gear while trying to ventilate them. The whole thing is incredibly disgusting. The victim is ashen, completely limp and looks dead... there is pink salty metallic tasting froth coming out of his mouth because of the drowning that makes you want to puke... there are people panicking, there are people yelling orders, there are paramedics (if you're lucky) trying to tell you what to do and your adrenaline level is so high that you can't concentrate on anything, let alone act in a calm methodical manner.

Ergo... if you're in an accident, there's going to be no getting you out of that thing. Point out.

That's one of the reasons they stopped making them until people started thinking it was cool to buy "retro" gear.

If you dive with a regular buddy then make sure they're trained. My advice would be to carry a sharp knife, because that's going to make the difference.

///

Part 3, PADI has it (partially) wrong.

I'm a PADI instructor, a tek (whatever that is) diver and I've been diving and assisting/teaching rescue diving for 27 years. I *thought* I knew how to execute a rescue until it actually happened.

This post is getting long so I'll make a long story short. The whole peal-and-ventilate model is a crock of ****. A total, unadulterated, unqualified crock of ****.

In the real world what *would* work, and what I now teach to *all* rescue students is that pealing and ventilating is a TEAM effort.

One diver gives rescue breaths. The other one focuses on getting the victim out of their gear.

... so you're all thinking *yeah*, but what if you're alone.

fine... ventilate and peal but there is one (and only one) thing that will help the victim. Getting them to paramedics A.S.A.H.P. As Fast As Humanly Possible.

That should be the only thing on your mind. if it's a short tow.... don't even bother trying to get them out of their gear. Just go. go go go.

IN all other cases.... scream... yell.... beg and pray... get help. Get someone else in the water to help you because ventilating and pealing on the fly just isn't going to help.

In the ultimate case.... do what you can but if there are no paramedics and no other help available then chances are 99% that you're ventilating a dead body.

R..
 
I am surprised that none of the old timers here gave a solution.Cutting it off is not a solution,would take too much time and effort. Just have victim on their back,face up on surface and slide the bcd down under them towards their feet.

That was what we came up with when the suggested chicken wing wouldn't work. The chicken wing probably didn't work because of the neoprene and how inflated the BCD was. They actually were finally able to pull it down by opening it all the way up, slightly deflating it and pulling it down towards my feet. I posted this because I am considering my options IF we can't come up with a solution that is workable and I hoped someone here could help. I don't know whether shears would work. The fabric is very tough. Has anyone ever successfully cut one of these? All your responses have been helpful. Thank you!

P.S. I agree with ALL who suggested that the chicken wing WOULD work with a real victim who had nothing to lose!
 
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Ditto James R, but I'd put money on my trylobite or shears. Keep in mind, if it is an emergency, that jacket is not a priority to me to be all nice to.....
 
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Diver0001,
Thanks for your reply. Question, you said "That's one of the reasons they stopped making them until people started thinking it was cool to buy "retro" gear." I am not sure I understand. Is my BCD retro gear and if so what's the implication? Thanks!

---------- Post added March 12th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ----------

Ditto James R, but I'd put money on my trilobyte or shears. Keep in mind, if it is an emergency, that jacket is not a priority to me to be all nice to.....

When Dr Lecter mentioned trilobite I looked it up, but couldn't find relevant information, nor can I with your spelling. What is a trilobi (y) te? Also, can someone suggest a brand of shears?
 
This thread has been interesting and helpful. I was Amy's "Rescuer" for this exercise. This was first time I had attempted removing someone else's BCD at the surface or underwater, although I have removed and redoned my own (old school Zeagel - with it's own pluses/minuses) many times. It was a very good if very sobering exercise, for although I am very familuar with Amy's equipment, I had never thought through trying to remove it in the water.

Like all real emergencies, there are typcially a cascading series of events or unanticipated conditions. The rescue traing material and instructors are clear that you should do the best the can do and do not be concerned that you will make the victim worse, as the chances of actual sucessful rescue are fairly small. In addition, the risks of injuring yourself in a rescure are fairly high unless you have thought very carefully about what you are doing. Those two things being said, I would very much like to find the most effective methods for assisting a victum in many diffferent circumstances with minumal risk to us both.

While in the water having trouble removing the BCD, the instructor directed me to "chicken wing" the victim. Although I did not know what the specific motions were for this proceedure, I got the general idea. However in a 7 mil suit in a properly fiting inflated BC the actual ability to manipulate her arms safely was minimal - with the stiffness of the suit, I had no feed back as to how her arm should or could move, easily leading to potentially severly hurting her arm or shoulder. While I struggled, Amy was actually the one who suggested pushing the BCD down her body, letting the shoulder holes slide down around her arms. Although we have not retested this method, it seemed to work fairly quickly, while maintining her head in an above water position.

Based on only this limited one time experience, there is no way I would even consider using a knife a cut a person out a BCD, espcially in any kind of seas - and remember, you are probaly towing and/or providing effective breathing every 5 seconds. EMT Shears are definately a possiblity, which I have been carrying recently, but I would believe it to be a slow tough process to cut through these reinforced seems.

PADI has clearly developed recommendations on procedures based on study of many successful and unsuccessful rescues. For me, based on this one-time experience, I envision myself focusing on trying to keep the airway clear and providing rescue breaths. With my relatively limited experience, the only time I can envision removing BCD and Tank is trying to get a non-responsive victim back into a boat without a dive platform and there is simply not enough manpower to lift the diver over the side.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and viewpoints - it's also really important to remember it does not matter what equipment you prefer, has better ratings or you are wearing - most likely you (and your buddy) will be rescuing someone else with equiment you have never touched before. Cheers, Kevin.
 
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