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FJUK1

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Location
UK
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None - Not Certified
I am VERY new to scuba, 3 pool sessions deep to be exact.

Have a question about a failing air source. Would it be practical to run a double-tank setup and have a regulator for each tank? I'm assuming this would negate a reg failure on one tank allowing you to switch to the other one easily and without the need for an emergency situation. Maybe this is a stupid question? Just a random scenario I thought up whilst thinking about alternate source ascent drills...

For context a dive would be based on the capacity of one tank and essentially treating the other as a pony, but instead carrying a full 12L tank etc.
 
I am VERY new to scuba, 3 pool sessions deep to be exact.

Have a question about a failing air source. Would it be practical to run a double-tank setup and have a regulator for each tank? I'm assuming this would negate a reg failure on one tank allowing you to switch to the other one easily and without the need for an emergency situation.
Practical? Most likely not.

For most recreational diving, it’s probably not necessary. Doubles are not all that common in recreational diving.

Regulators are pretty reliable, and if diving with a buddy, which you’ll most likely be doing for the near future, your emergency gas is on your buddy’s back.

If you are real concerned about having redundancy, a pony or H valve would probably be better options. The twin tank setup will add weight, and if you don’t plan on using the second cylinder, it’s unnecessary.

An H valve is a valve that is attached to your tank that allows connection of two regulators. So, you’ll have two completely independent regulators connected to a single tank.

For me, I have a pony, but only use in certain situations. For most of my dives, my buddy is close enough that the pony isn’t needed.
 
It is called independent doubles. Each tank is breathed to specific predetermined pressure swapping from one to the other and so on such that there is always remaining in either tank enough air to terminate a dive safely. IDs predate isolation manifolded doubles and were out of favor for a long while. But now folks sling IDs, side mount, and it is okay again apparently. I still have an ID rig and used it recently. You will mostly see them being used by solo divers nowadays as was the case with me. H or Y valves do not provide full redundancy and are therefore not acceptable as a redundant air source for solo certified divers. A pony or buddy bottle, usually slung but often back mounted, is more common now than IDs.
 
@Jfinch An excellent question. Keep thinking and asking!

The incidence of death from equipment failure in scuba are extremely low, especially in the recreational world. I personally have never seen even an incident that prevented gas from being delivered to a diver. Therefore, again recreationally, where the surface is always available to you, it’s basically considered too much equipment to offset such a small risk. Your buddy has your extra gas, and if all else fails, make your way to the big tank in the sky.

As your dives get more challenging and the environment becomes less forgiving, additional redundancy becomes more reasonable. As has been mentioned, many people carry what is called a “pony bottle“: a small, completely separate tank and regulator set up that can be used in case of emergency.

As dives become even more challenging, it may become impossible to get to the surface for a very long time, such as in a serious decompression or cave dive. In that case, it is standard to use multiple tanks. Some people use completely separate tanks, such as in sidemount (a form of independent doubles), or tanks that have been manifolded together with an isolation valve: backmount doubles.

Most people would say that such equipment would only be used in such heavy duty technical situations. Personally, I dive doubles on every single dive I do. Of course, I also have some fairly small doubles that I use for straightforward dives. :)

Like I said, I think that was a great question that you asked. Hopefully you have gotten some answers that will help you to understand what is available. In addition, I have a couple of thoughts along that line for you to ponder if you wish.

While it may seem really important to have the extra redundancy of extra tanks and extra regulators, consider what *actually* kills most recreational divers. It’s not equipment failure. It’s simply running out of gas. And fixing that requires no extra equipment. It just requires paying attention to your gas supply and having a proper understanding of gas management. All the extra regulators in the world won’t help if you don’t pay attention to your gauge and leave proper margins. You can Google “rock bottom gas management” for more thinking on that.

And a related thought. Most new SCUBA divers — and plenty of experienced SCUBA divers – tend to focus on equipment. That includes trying to solve problems with equipment. In most cases, though, the problems that need to be solved are created from lack of ability or training, not lack of equipment. There’s even a saying for that: “equipment solution to a skills problem.” Something to consider: if you can foresee a problem with a particular configuration, it’s likely other, more experienced divers could as well. So ask yourself: why have they not considered your solution to the problem? Or more specifically, how are they solving the problem without adding additional equipment? Personally, I find when I ask that question, it often opens my thinking up to completely different avenues.

None of this is to take away from you or your question. Seriously, I like the question. Keep thinking about the Why. Too many divers focus on the what and ignore the Why. But, there can be multiple levels to the Why. So, keep thinking, and keep asking!
 
While it may seem really important to have the extra redundancy of extra tanks and extra regulators, consider what *actually* kills most recreational divers. It’s not equipment failure. It’s simply running out of gas. And fixing that requires no extra equipment. It just requires paying attention to your gas supply and having a proper understanding of gas management. All the extra regulators in the world won’t help if you don’t pay attention to your gauge and leave proper margins.
Excellent point. Equipment failure is way down the list of problems divers face, and that is reduced further with properly maintained gear.

Diving problems are often not one catastrophic failure. They are often due to a series of small problems. Each problem by itself may not seem like much, but compounded, they present a combined problem that is definitely larger than the some of its parts.


OP, there are no bad questions, but overall, Scuba Diving is pretty safe, provided you stay within your limits. Do some dives and build some confidence. When you have enough, look into a stress & rescue course. This was easily the best course I have taken.

BTW, maybe this will help. While my dive count pails in comparison to several here, it’s probably more than most certified divers. In my dives, I’ve experienced several dives that were prematurely ended. In all but one, the dive was thumbed, and the divers ascended without incident. The other ended in an actual rescue. Lots of questions on the cause of that incident. Gear was old, service history suspect. Regardless of the cause, what helped that diver was the other divers in the group.
 
I am VERY new to scuba, 3 pool sessions deep to be exact.

Have a question about a failing air source. Would it be practical to run a double-tank setup and have a regulator for each tank? I'm assuming this would negate a reg failure on one tank allowing you to switch to the other one easily and without the need for an emergency situation. Maybe this is a stupid question? Just a random scenario I thought up whilst thinking about alternate source ascent drills...

For context a dive would be based on the capacity of one tank and essentially treating the other as a pony, but instead carrying a full 12L tank etc.
Under the scenario you describe, where the second tank gas is not calculated for the dive nor used, it’s a pony bottle, no matter the size.
 
@Jfinch An excellent question. Keep thinking and asking!

The incidence of death from equipment failure in scuba are extremely low, especially in the recreational world. I personally have never seen even an incident that prevented gas from being delivered to a diver. Therefore, again recreationally, where the surface is always available to you, it’s basically considered too much equipment to offset such a small risk. Your buddy has your extra gas, and if all else fails, make your way to the big tank in the sky.

As your dives get more challenging and the environment becomes less forgiving, additional redundancy becomes more reasonable. As has been mentioned, many people carry what is called a “pony bottle“: a small, completely separate tank and regulator set up that can be used in case of emergency.

As dives become even more challenging, it may become impossible to get to the surface for a very long time, such as in a serious decompression or cave dive. In that case, it is standard to use multiple tanks. Some people use completely separate tanks, such as in sidemount (a form of independent doubles), or tanks that have been manifolded together with an isolation valve: backmount doubles.

Most people would say that such equipment would only be used in such heavy duty technical situations. Personally, I dive doubles on every single dive I do. Of course, I also have some fairly small doubles that I use for straightforward dives. :)

Like I said, I think that was a great question that you asked. Hopefully you have gotten some answers that will help you to understand what is available. In addition, I have a couple of thoughts along that line for you to ponder if you wish.

While it may seem really important to have the extra redundancy of extra tanks and extra regulators, consider what *actually* kills most recreational divers. It’s not equipment failure. It’s simply running out of gas. And fixing that requires no extra equipment. It just requires paying attention to your gas supply and having a proper understanding of gas management. All the extra regulators in the world won’t help if you don’t pay attention to your gauge and leave proper margins. You can Google “rock bottom gas management” for more thinking on that.

And a related thought. Most new SCUBA divers — and plenty of experienced SCUBA divers – tend to focus on equipment. That includes trying to solve problems with equipment. In most cases, though, the problems that need to be solved are created from lack of ability or training, not lack of equipment. There’s even a saying for that: “equipment solution to a skills problem.” Something to consider: if you can foresee a problem with a particular configuration, it’s likely other, more experienced divers could as well. So ask yourself: why have they not considered your solution to the problem? Or more specifically, how are they solving the problem without adding additional equipment? Personally, I find when I ask that question, it often opens my thinking up to completely different avenues.

None of this is to take away from you or your question. Seriously, I like the question. Keep thinking about the Why. Too many divers focus on the what and ignore the Why. But, there can be multiple levels to the Why. So, keep thinking, and keep asking!
Thanks a lot, makes complete sense. Will think the way you suggested from now on, good point of view!
 
Just a bit of additional perspective.

I dive doubles with manifold. Partly because I like to do longer dives, and partly because it adds redundancy. I dive in Denmark, also during winter. Water temperatures get down to 4 degrees Celsius. At low temperatures, there is a risk of freeflow due to the first stage freezing. By using doubles, I have a first stage on each cylinder with each there second stage. One first stage supplies my BCD, the other first stage supplies my drysuit; so also added redundancy there.

As I said, my doubles are connected by a manifold. This gives the advantage that you use air from both cylinders at the time. If you use independent doubles, you would have to change regulator from time to time, otherwise you will get unbalanced (the one you are breathing From gets lighter during the dives, the other one does not).

In case of an issue, you can close the manifold and the set works exactly like independent doubles.

For me it is a question of what dives you do. In tropical environments, I am happy to dive with a regular setup. But in cold water, deep dives, low visibility and night-dive conditions, I like the extra redundancy.
 
I would focus on basic skills for now, don't exceed your competency, stay near a buddy, practice sharing air, and worry about the rest when your ability to add the task loading of extra gear is there. Everyone's different and I'm no expert, but I actually think at my level of experience, the extra task loading would actually add more danger than the redundancy would provide. When I get a couple hundred dives in I may add a small pony bottle. For now, I'm keeping it simple and working on fundamentals, muscle memory and situational awareness. Hope all that made sense.
 
I am VERY new to scuba, 3 pool sessions deep to be exact.

Have a question about a failing air source. Would it be practical to run a double-tank setup and have a regulator for each tank? I'm assuming this would negate a reg failure on one tank allowing you to switch to the other one easily and without the need for an emergency situation. Maybe this is a stupid question? Just a random scenario I thought up whilst thinking about alternate source ascent drills...

For context a dive would be based on the capacity of one tank and essentially treating the other as a pony, but instead carrying a full 12L tank etc.
I think that in most cases a twin tank is not really needed.
When I started diving, in 1975, using 2x10 liters tanks was quite normal here in Italy.
So I started with this twin tank setup at my first course.
At the time there was no separation manifold but the tanks had a mechanical reserve, ensuring that even breathing out everything, you just had to pull a rod and you retrieved 1/4 of the tank capacity for ascending safely and making some deco stop, if required (at the time deco diving was also normal and fully recreational, it was thaught at the very first course).
The twin tank had two independent valves and two fully independent regulators: so in case one failed, we had to close that valve and continue breathing with the other reg.
After several years, around 1985; I gave up using those heavy and bulky twin tanks and switched to a single 15-liters steel tank.
Which I am still using now.
But also this single tank is equipped with a double valve with reserve: so I still use the same two fully independent regs (two Scubapro MK5 plus two 109 modified to Balanced Adjustable, which are among the most reliable regs ever built, albeit the more modern MK10+G250 have slightly better performances).
I never endorsed the US-style system: a single small tank of just 11 liters, with no reserve and a single valve, which means a single reg plus a crap "octupus" low-performances secondary stage.
If also you do not feel "safe enough" with that low-cost US-style tank and reg system, I suggest that you adopt a modern single tank of proper size (15 liters), with no reserve, but with a pressure gauge instead, two indipendent valves with DIN posts and two fully separate, high performances, identical, DIN regs.
This is what I recommend for recreational divers who do not feel "safe enough"...
Such tanks are currently easily available in EU and in tropical locations with diving centers run by EU or UK instructors and dive masters, such as Red Sea, Maldives, etc. .
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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