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refusing an instabuddy

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by ballastbelly, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
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    Are you saying that 500 PSI is enough to get the two of you to a depth where you can both do a CESA or a buoyant emergency ascent to the surface? I personally think that I can do a CESA from 100 feet safely, but that's not how I plan my dives.
     
  2. Blyslv

    Blyslv Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
    Location: Santa Fe NM
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    Funny post. I think you make a good point about the buddy system maybe undermining personal responsibility. Thus far ALL my dives have been with insta-buddies and I've gotten pretty good at spotting red flags and eliminating some of my own beginner issues. (Hint: if it's his 12th dive ever and he's bringing a go pro, look out. Likewise if she ask for her camera when she's in the waer, your not and it's the first you've discussed it!)

    But I am curious about your observation above. First, I just really like saying "Bangkok Women Really Are Fellas", and that this mnemonic is the rock by which I abide. My dive "career" is miniscule, but already it has caught a few mistakes. Whether or not I'm side by side with a buddy underwater, this surface prep strikes me as pretty valuable.

    And speaking of underwater: how often do you check in with your buddy, to flash the OK sign or check how much air you each have?
     
  3. mathauck0814

    mathauck0814 Assistant Instructor

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    In what way is a pony bottle going to be better than my al40? If he bottomed out my 40 his 19 wouldn't have done it.

    Truth be told a CCR diver buddy is a tremendous advantage to an open circuit diver. Not necessarily the other way around.
     
  4. azmodan50

    azmodan50 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: New York
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    I wouldn't plan that way either. Nor would I let myself be the buddy at depth with only 500lbs of air. I am always on the boat with over 500lbs. And if I ran out of air at depth or had a malfunction and my buddy only had 500lbs, I would probably cut their hose before I dropped my weight just so they got to have the same fun I did. And needless to say, I would never dive with them again.

    I guess I have just been lucky that everyone I dive with goes by the same rules as I do. They may not be optimal, but it works for me. I always turn around and start reducing my depth when I get to 1500lbs. And I am on the surface with no less then 500lbs.

    ---------- Post added July 3rd, 2014 at 04:40 PM ----------

    But you are talking extremes here. Maybe he should be slinging an HP133 then. The point is, what would he have done if he lost you. His back up should be enough to get him to the surface for his planned depth. Of course this is based on my thought that he should be equipped as a solo diver since he can't breathe your air.

    In all honesty, I don't see how a CCR diver would be advantageous. He couldn't breathe your air but couldn't you breathe his? Not trying to be a wise ass here, I am truly curious what the advantage would be. I've never dove with a CCR diver or even seen one in person. It does interest me a lot though.
     
  5. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Loggerhead Turtle

    # of Dives: 25 - 49
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    That poster said this "They forget they may be only 50 feet away from real air and swim 200 feet to get to their buddy."
    They need to be diving in some pretty good visibility to be doing air checks 200 feet away. Not to mention have some decent eye site in general to know what the person signaled back.
     
  6. Stoo

    Stoo NAUI Instructor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Freelton & Tobermory, Ontario, Canada
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    That's kinda what I was thinking! With all due respect Ballastbelly, for someone who barely has their fins wet, you might want to check your attitude before you get out in the real world. As FM pointed out, it's the real novice divers that the rest of us cringe at the thought of being forced to dive with. I never use my Instructor card when I'm on vacation since I'm afraid I'll be targetted to be "that guy's" buddy!

    I also agree with FM that you are probably overly concerned. Most of the things you express concern about can be managed with a conversation on the boat. If you and your buddy don't "click", then say so.

    But welcome to the sport! Any more questions? :wink:

    But in all seriousness, my best advice to you at this point, is to shut-up on the boat and consider yourself lucky if someone agrees to dive with you. Most of us old farts love mentoring new divers, but nothing will rub a boatload of experienced divers the wrong way faster than a guy with a brand new c-card who's a know-it-all. That new card of yours (and I hate to put it so bluntly) doesn't mean sh!t, other than it's a permit to learn from others.
     
    Wingy and Dhboner like this.
  7. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace

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    If I were lucky enough to get insta-buddied with someone who wants to do the BWRAF . . . well, I'd know I was diving with a relative novice who WAS TAKING HIS TRAINING SERIOUSLY, and I'd expect a relatively short but very pleasant dive.

    Please, anybody who is reading this, do NOT get the idea that anybody who wants to do a good buddy check will be regarded as an undesirable buddy.
     
    boulderjohn, Hawkwood, Blyslv and 2 others like this.
  8. azmodan50

    azmodan50 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: New York
    133
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    LOL! Well said. Funny thing is that I was out diving yesterday and got paired up with a new diver (only 10 dives). The plan was to go to a log pile that is in 70 feet of water. I knew from being there a few days ago that the water temperature at that depth was only 46 degrees. As we were getting ready to get in the water, I noticed that he was wearing a 7/5mm wetsuit and didn't have gloves. I wore a full 7mm the last time I went and got a little cold after being there for a few minutes.

    I told him that we should probable change our dive plan because of his wetsuit and lack of gloves. He insisted that he would be fine so we kept the plan. Needless to say, we get down to 70ft and I notice that his hands did not look to be the right color so we had to head up to the 70 degree water.

    New divers can be all piss and vinegar and not know there own limits. But to be honest, I hope to dive with this guy again. Not many people are willing to help new divers learn.
     
  9. mathauck0814

    mathauck0814 Assistant Instructor

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    Let's say that you and I go on a regular old single tank, open circuit dive. If you run out of gas, the idea is that I have enough in my tank left for you and I to share so that we can surface together. If you lose me and drain your tank you'd be in the same situation as this fellow was. But that's the assumption that all buddy pairs make entering the water.

    The advantage to having a CCR diver as a buddy is that we are fully redundant with open circuit gas to bail out to that we only plan to breathe if (and only if) the rebreather becomes compromised for some reason. So in the case of this dive, I was carrying 40 cubic feet of EAN32. For the dive we were on (and frankly for much more aggressive and/or longer dives) 40 cubic feet is enough gas for me to get back to one of the four uplines and surface.

    Odds are that I complete my dive on the loop and that 40 cubic feet never gets used. This is why it's so advantageous for an open circuit diver; we don't need to share - you can just have my extra gas while I complete my dive as planned. As soon as you have an issue the dive is over and we're on our way out of the water anyway.

    I agree that he brought insufficient gas on the dive and then compounded things further by not properly monitoring his gauges during the early portion of the dive. That's what makes for a bad instabuddy :)
     
  10. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace

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    Speak for yourselves. In my experience, novice divers, although their dives will be short, can be some of the best buddies. To begin with, they are willing to discuss a dive plan and do a buddy check. In the water, they generally want to stay close to their buddy, and they are so thrilled with everything they see that it spills over in my dive, and makes me remember the joy of common animals.

    The novice diver with very poor buoyancy control or a complete lack of ability to stay out of the silty bottom is a bit of a "working" dive, rather than a fun one. But many novice divers have reasonable basic skills and are very rewarding to dive with.

    I think it's EXTREMELY important that new divers here on SB do not come away with the idea that they are universally viewed as undesirable buddies. They feel sheepish enough on a dive trip.
     

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