Regulator Flooding

[ScubaSarus]

Sounds like a torn or distorted diaphram on the second stage. A few divers do forget to switch to the octo; it happens. You could have taken the second stage apart to check the diaphram (I know its spelled wrong). Suprised she had only one bout of trouble with 16 regulator rentals. If you don't want to spend a lot of money and dont do vey deep diving, you may look into getting a Sheerwood Magnum or Blizzard (reliable regs).

 

[diverrick]

I was most certainly the second stage.. Could have been a crack in the case. My wifes reg did that a couple of months ago, and we found a small leak in the case where the hose goes into the body nothing visual, but when the reg was presuurizd, with air flowing, you could see the air leaking out. She was real sick for a couple of days as a result of inhaling salt water. She didn't even know it happened, it was that subtle. I also recommend getting your own gear then you'll know what your using is good.

 

[scubadiverjunkie]

I am writing about an accident that my wife recently had with rental equipment. She is a beginner diver with just 16 dives.

We did a buddy check on the boat before jumping in and starting our descent all seemed alright. As we were descending my wife noticed that when she inhaled she was getting mostly air but also some water. She thought maybe some water was getting in from the mouthpiece and continued the descent. At 16 meters the regulators started flooding completely and as she inhaled she got no air - just water. She signalled to me that she was having problems but I could not understand that it was an air related problem. She decided to ascend. Her dive lasted a total of about 5 minutes all descent time.

I have asked different divers what can cause this kind of technical problem with no definitive answers. Some have said that it is a second stage problem, others a first stage (which could possibly mean that also the octopus would malfunction??). Almost certainly I suppose that it is a maintenance related problem which exacerbates itself with increased pressure as the problem was not evident at the surface.

I would appreciate hearing from anyone who can tell me what can cause this and how it can be prevented.

As a footnote, the dive shop denied that the accident occured and that there were any problems with the regulator (while the divemaster on the boat admitted that rented equipment is often crap). The dive shop simply blamed her for ascending.

Fortunately, considering that she had no air in her lungs the possibility of a lung injury from rapid ascent would be very small and I would think that the chances of getting bent would be relatively low from the first dive of the day, at that depth for that short a time.

What I am most interested in is knowing what can cause a regulator to malfunction in this way. Is it a first or second stage failure?? Is the proper maintenance of the reg. a factor?

I had almost the exact same problem with rental gear and on my 4th and final checkout dive. While doing skills, I was starting to get a little bit of water in the mouth piece - which soon turned into a full mouthful with every breath. I was lucky enough to have a really good instructor that taught me well - so I calmly dropped the second stage and drew my Octo where I continued with an OK sgnal and finished my dive. Anyhow - the moral to the story is that with this problem with rented gear - it turned out to be the diaphragm. I agree with buying personal gear as soon as possible.

But that's just my opinion......

 

[Groundhog246]

If someone wants to know "What would cause a regulator to breath wet at the beginning of a dive and completely fail to provide air at 16m depth?" Post it on the equipment section under regulators and you're likely to get "just the answer".
Post a description of an incident (unlike the original post, I would not class it an accident) in this forum and you should expect comment on not just the equipment, but the manner in which it was dealt.
Maybe 2DiveCrew does realise that the dive was poorly managed, but if all he's concerned with is the hardware, I would not make that assumption. No matter how well maintained, equipment problems can and will occur. We all need to be able to deal with it, correctly. And that's what this forum is for. Discussion of what was done wrong and how to improve for next time.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It is always a good idea to try to inhale from each second stage after you connect the reg to the tank but before you turn on the air. You should not be able to get any air and you should be able to hear the lever and diaphragm move. A normal person can easily inhale and create the 20 inches of water's worth of vaccum and that is required to test the second stage for any defects that will impact the dive.

The ability to draw any air at all from the second stage signals a potential problem with the case, the exhaust valve, the diphragm, the mouthpiece or any of the o-rings sealing any openings in the case. Exhaling into the reg will also clear the exhaust valve and unstick it if it is stuck to the case. Attempting to inhale again if it was stuck will confirm that it isn't torn. Then turn on the air and do the rest of the pre-dive checks.

 

[pt40fathoms]

I had EXACTLY the same thing happen to me a few years ago. The reg was breathing wet when shallow, got worse as I descended, until at about 40 feet (about 12 meters) I was getting more water than air.

Switched to my octo, I was nice and dry, signaled to buddy that my reg was bad and dive ended.

It was the exhaust valve that was crinkled and folded a bit into the opening into the air cavity of the reg. We popped it out from it folded position and went back down to complete a dive with a nice dry first stage.

How it got this way is still a mystery, and quite frankly, I never gave it a second thought. This is THE most likely reason for the reg acting the way it did.

 

[diverrick]

DA Aquamaster had a very good point I am going to add the suction check to my predive checks. I had never really gave it any thought before this. Makes sense to me.

 

[Bretagne]

2DiveCrew,
As you posted in this forum, I answered to the whole incident, because your description made me think that you were not aware of the major problem in my opinion, communication.
As you say that you are aware of it, I apologize, but from your wording I was afraid of poorly ranked priorities. I am glad that it is not the case. Would you have posted in the forom dedicated to regulators, I would not had answered that way.

 

[2DiveCrew]

For Groundhog, I have 150 dives. Out of curiosity, what would you change if I had 1500??

This is the first time that I have ever had problems on a dive that have resulted in the dive being aborted. As far as the buddy skills are concerned I do agree but emergecies rarely play themselves out like in the textbook and the fact is that many people and certainly MOST beginners are not going to be calm, try their octopus, if that doesn't work, try the buddy's, if that's no good signal for air. I've seen people panic for a lot less than that.

To make matters worse, I had two issues to deal with underwater (1) a beginner diver that had already started to ascend (2) a divemaster that was trying to persuade me not to ascend with her!! Of course I didn't listen to him but it was still a distraction that didn't help in a situation when it's all a matter of seconds during which the buddy is ascending several feet (a meter or so).

All the points on the rented equipment are valid and well taken. I agree fully and seriously regret that she did not have her own.

Thanks Bretagne, in the end, it is an equipment problem that is exacerbated by a communication problem. The best way to prevent the accident it is good equipment, the best way to deal with it is good communication. Regardless, of where this belongs or what should have been done, it is negligent on the part of dive shops to rent equipment that has not properly been serviced. It is paricularly ironic that the day before we paid 40 Euro for a check dive because of the shop's alleged concern about her having only 16 dives!

 

[Groundhog246]

For Groundhog, I have 150 dives. Out of curiosity, what would you change if I had 1500??

Nothing. However, if you also had 16, I might suggest you both try to get some experience built up by diving with other more experienced divers, rather than each other. As it stands, I'd suggest you spend some time with her on OOA and other drills (mask flood, etc). In my admittedly limited experience, getting through 150 dives with no problems requiring an abort is impressive. My first abort was dive 16, my buddies reg freeflowed 8 minutes into our second dive at 50 feet (water temp of 42F). I've had a couple of other aborts by buddies and I aborted one last spring after I turned my head and one side of my hood flooded cold (41F) water in over my ear. Instant severe vertigo and nausea. Biggest challenge was my buddy (who I had never dove with before or since) was not paying attention (which is part of how I flooded my hood) and continued merrily along. So after regaining some composure, I had to chase him down and get his attention (grabbed him and truned him to face me) before ascending.

Regardless, of where this belongs or what should have been done, it is negligent on the part of dive shops to rent equipment that has not properly been serviced. It is paricularly ironic that the day before we paid 40 Euro for a check dive because of the shop's alleged concern about her having only 16 dives!

Did she do the check dive with the same regs? If so, it decreases the likelihood that they were in any way negligent as they were obviously functioning then. As I mentioned earlier, if you hit the water "just right" the impact can "displace" an exhaust valve. This is not a maintenance issue, nor necessarily a design issue or even a bad entry technique and might not have been prevented by owning her own. It's just something that can happen. If the shop didn't find a problem, it's likely that whoever checked the reg back on board, exhaled sharply/heavily enough to have it pop back in place.