Reply from Viking re: Oriskany ripoff

[Frog77]

Not excited at all about the subject. I actually think this is a very simple issue. Where do you draw the line on what are odd trinkets and bits in a wreck?

 

[JeffG]

Do you seriously believe there's anything left on it to be torn apart? Maybe a rusty steel valve or two... perhaps a door hinge, or if you're lucky maybe even a toilet. Archaeologicaly important items worth state and federal protection for sure... :shakehead

If its anything like the BC artifical reefs...there's nothing. Bear as can be.

The other part that is funny. How proud can someone be about having a piece of a artifical reef?....Ooooh its a real big boy dive

 

[dbg40]

Yup, my next trip to Truk I'm bringing home a bunch of stuff. There will be more of those right?

Ahh, and the fringe rears its head......You are correct, there will be more. War is raging as we speak, and it will in the future, it is unfortunate, but it seems that it is what man kind does. And if you had read deeper, I expressly said "as long as it has NO historical significance, and is NOT a tomb. Not hard to understand. Clearly, there is a diference here. This is a DISCARDED piece of junk, designed to rot away, be banged up by storms, or have a fiew bits go home with some divers.

 

[Spectre]

Cloud the issue all you want, it doesn't matter why she's there.

Actually, since so many people have been tooting about how it's a historical ship and all that, why she's there is -precisely- the point.

Here's a little history lesson for you all. Up until 1994, The Maritime Administration (MARAD) was able to sell obsolete ships to the highest bidder for dismantling. Many of those sales went overseas to China, Bangladesh, Pakistan and India as they began underbidding domestic scrappers. However in 1994, the EPA raised concerns with the sale of ships with PCBs and other hazardous material internationally, since everyone knew they were being scrapped with cheap labor and shoddy environmental protection laws. Between 1987 and 1994, MARAD sold 130 ships at an average of $108 per ton.

A moratorium was placed on the sale of ships while the EPA did their thing. It was lifted in 1995, and the Oriskany was one of the first ships sold for scrap by the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS), for $1.28 million to Pegasus Inc. of Oakland, California.

However Pegasus defaulted on the sale, and the Navy reclaimed ownership of the Oriskany in 1997. In 1998, Al Gore got involved, looked at the EPA concerns from 1994 and inacted a moratorium on overseas scrapping, and basically the bottom fell out of the scrapping market for US ships. In 1998, only 15 ships were sold for scrap, 12 at a whopping 27 cents per ton, and 3 for ten bucks total. Of those 17, the purchasers didn't even bother picking up 5 of them.

In other words, the Oriskany wasn't going to be able to be 'sold' anymore, since we're now -paying- people to take our junk. The Oriskany then became a pilot program to see if it would be cheaper to reef the ships, then to sell them to the scrappers.

In other words, this isn't some historical wreck. This is scrap that would have been turned into toasters 10 years ago if Pegasus didn't default on their payment. Everything of any historical value has been stripped off the wreck and is most likely in the posession of the Oriskany Museum in Oriskany, NY. It's an ugly duckling that no one wanted to pay for.

Thinking about the heros that served on the ship doesn't do a pile of rust any good. It just results in more environmental issues as ships that haven't been cleaned for environmental hazards sit and rust. Do some research into the Reserve Fleets in James River and elsewhere, at the problems those ships are causing, and the massive amount of tax dollars that are being spent to get rid of them [and many of them are beyond condition to even scuttle anymore].

Some people seem to want to compare the Oriskany to some of the historical sites in the US, the Arizona for one. Well, just take a look at the Arizona and the problems we're having with her... because she's a war grave and we should respect that? Well, when I was out at the Arizona memorial a couple years ago, all feelings of nostalga and respect were dashed as I watched the oil bubble up to the surface, with slicks all over the site... because of the massive amount of hoops and red tape involved to be able to get down there and get the damn oil out of her.

It's a piece of junk on a pile of junk that no one else wanted. No one would have missed it if they didn't hear about it. If you've been out there, you'd know there's just -trash- lying about the wreck. drill bit sets, hammers, crap just left behind when the workers were done. Go, take stuff before you kill coral to get at it.... it's just a big pile of metal in the shape of a ship.

 

[Diver Dennis]

I did miss that dbg, sorry.

 

[jonnythan]

Jeff, I understand that it's "junk" to the government. Something that was disposed of because there was no better way.

I still contend that it's irrelevant.

The ship is obviously a major diver attraction, and divers are ripping it apart, devaluing it as a dive site. It's just like any other wreck... their greed is taking away the interesting parts of the dive site and make it that much less worth seeing or exploring.

It doesn't matter what the government thinks or what MARAD thinks or why they decided to put it where they have. What matters in *this* dispute is that scuba divers are knowingly ruining the wreck for others by stripping it, and that's *wrong* and possibly illegal.

 

[notabob]

Jeff, I understand that it's "junk" to the government. Something that was disposed of because there was no better way.

I still contend that it's irrelevant.

The ship is obviously a major diver attraction, and divers are ripping it apart, devaluing it as a dive site. It's just like any other wreck... their greed is taking away the interesting parts of the dive site and make it that much less worth seeing or exploring.

It doesn't matter what the government thinks or what MARAD thinks or why they decided to put it where they have. What matters in *this* dispute is that scuba divers are knowingly ruining the wreck for others by stripping it, and that's *wrong* and possibly illegal.

Jonnythan... Have you been reading anything that others have posted? There's _NOTHING_ left on it to strip. Just rusty pieces of worthless debris. Short of someone taking a blowtorch to it, you couldn't ruin it any more than it already is. In fact, it may actually make it more interesting...

 

[dbg40]

I did miss that dbg, sorry.

No problem.... Though I must admit that I am amazed at the fuss being waged over this wreck! I would be among the first to battle the desecration of an historic site, or the resting place of lost souls. I would also include the taking of personal items that were not returned to the families of the lost. I just can't get worked up over mundane scrap heaps being poked at, especially an aircraft carrier. It's shear size is enough to marvel at, leave alone noticing a missing piece here and there.

 

[jonnythan]

Jonnythan... Have you been reading anything that others have posted? There's _NOTHING_ left on it to strip. Just rusty pieces of worthless debris. Short of someone taking a blowtorch to it, you couldn't ruin it any more than it already is. In fact, it may actually make it more interesting...

Apparently these guys took a control panel of some sort that was an interesting thing to go look at. Apparently it took some work to get it out.

This isn't a bolt or a nail or debris.. it was something to see on the dive.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's pretty simple. Call the appropriate authorities and walk away.