Reply from Viking re: Oriskany ripoff

[Walt1957]

Artificial reefs are a renewable resource. there're dozens of ships all around this country alone, just waiting to be sunk along with whatever random junk still left on them once EPA has had their say. And they're certainly no pattern of stones... Just big rusting hulks riddled with holes and grafiti

So then it's ok to take coral, too? After all it too is a renewable resource, more will grow, and if nobody misses that exact piece of coral then it is ok, right? Cut me a break. Taking things that don't belong to you is wrong, no matter how you slice it.

 

[Thalassamania]

What you guys don't get is that there are two things going on here. One is a long term disagreement between competing user groups, hikers vs. 4-wheelers are a similar simile. The second is that the Captain's attitude needs adjustments. He thinks that just because he can wave the flag and claim snake eater status (and if I had a nickel for everyone of those fraudulent claims I've heard ...) he can do whatever he wants.

The high moral ground may not be clearly defined. But I think that the legal ground is, and el Capitan is trying to pee up a rope.

 

[Don Wray]

What you guys don't get is that there are two things going on here. One is a long term disagreement between competing user groups, hikers vs. 4-wheelers are a similar simile. The second is that the Captain's attitude needs adjustments. He thinks that just because he can wave the flag and claim snake eater status (and if I had a nickel for everyone of those fraudulent claims I've heard ...) he can do whatever he wants.

The high moral ground may not be clearly defined. But I think that the legal ground is, and el Capitan is trying to pee up a rope.

Agreed!

 

[Oriskany Divemaster]

Interesting theory. How does this theft damage you? Unless you have dived the wreck previously and seen the item in its prior state, you would never know that it was supposed to be there and is now missing in which case you could argue that you were somehow harmed because you 'miss' it, but that's quite a generalization you are making without justification.

Sog, I dive that wreck a few times a week. (I just returned from diving it.) As a working Divemaster, I would take people down to see that piece. It was one of the more interesting parts of the dive. As with flowers, playground slides, $100 bills, nobody's going to take something most people don't want, so all the good stuff is taken first, thereby removing other's the option of enjoying it. It's the old rules of, "if it's not yours, don't take it." And, "Always leave the woodpile higher than when you found it."

Artificial reefs are a renewable resource. there're dozens of ships all around this country alone, just waiting to be sunk along with whatever random junk still left on them once EPA has had their say. And they're certainly no pattern of stones... Just big rusting hulks riddled with holes and grafiti

Notabob..You, apparently subscribe to the Raising Arizona school of thought that states something like, "Hell there's so many of them, Hi, no one will ever miss just one."

You choose to look at the Oriskany and see "big rusting hulks..."
I choose to look at the history, the lives changed, the countries it help change, the world it changed. It's our choice on how we look at the world.

I once had a brief arguement with my cousin, when he claimed that Pensacola was not in the central time zone. Considering I live here and knew exactly what time it was, he still continued to argue his point, making himself look sillier and smaller with each word. And that's where this is headed...

So why not dive with me on the Oriskany? If after a couple of dives, you don't change your mind, I'll gladly refund your money.

 

[WilDive4Food]

Sog, I dive that wreck a few times a week. (I just returned from diving it.) As a working Divemaster, I would take people down to see that piece. It was one of the more interesting parts of the dive. As with flowers, playground slides, $100 bills, nobody's going to take something most people don't want, so all the good stuff is taken first, thereby removing other's the option of enjoying it. It's the old rules of, "if it's not yours, don't take it." And, "Always leave the woodpile higher than when you found it."



Notabob..You, apparently subscribe to the Raising Arizona school of thought that states something like, "Hell there's so many of them, Hi, no one will ever miss just one."

You choose to look at the Oriskany and see "big rusting hulks..."
I choose to look at the history, the lives changed, the countries it help change, the world it changed. It's our choice on how we look at the world.

I once had a brief arguement with my cousin, when he claimed that Pensacola was not in the central time zone. Considering I live here and knew exactly what time it was, he still continued to argue his point, making himself look sillier and smaller with each word. And that's where this is headed...

So why not dive with me on the Oriskany? If after a couple of dives, you don't change your mind, I'll gladly refund your money.

:luxhello: indeed

 

[Don Wray]

ISo why not dive with me on the Oriskany? If after a couple of dives, you don't change your mind, I'll gladly refund your money.

I'm gonna dive with you

 

[jonnythan]

Sog, I dive that wreck a few times a week. (I just returned from diving it.) As a working Divemaster, I would take people down to see that piece. It was one of the more interesting parts of the dive. As with flowers, playground slides, $100 bills, nobody's going to take something most people don't want, so all the good stuff is taken first, thereby removing other's the option of enjoying it. It's the old rules of, "if it's not yours, don't take it." And, "Always leave the woodpile higher than when you found it."

 

[notabob]

You choose to look at the Oriskany and see "big rusting hulks..."
I choose to look at the history, the lives changed, the countries it help change, the world it changed. It's our choice on how we look at the world.

I see a rusting hulk because of the circumstances surrounding her sinking and because that's what she's become prior to the sinking itself. Historical aspects of a _real_ wreck, on the other hand, are endlessly fascinating to me; namely the tragedy and the events surrounding the sinking.

Something that was sunk on purpose in the fashion of oriskany, grove, or many other artificials just can't elicit nearly the same level of fascination or excitement in me, no matter how significant the ships may have been during the highlight of their careers. The Oldsmobile that Ted Kennedy drove into a pond certainly changed lives too. But in the end it's still only a car...

I once had a brief arguement with my cousin, when he claimed that Pensacola was not in the central time zone. Considering I live here and knew exactly what time it was, he still continued to argue his point, making himself look sillier and smaller with each word. And that's where this is headed...

And your point is? This makes zero sense and has absolutely no parallels with the discussion here... Find a better analogy.

So why not dive with me on the Oriskany? If after a couple of dives, you don't change your mind, I'll gladly refund your money.

I've dived plenty of artificials... They're fun to swim around and through. I'll take a real wreck any day of the week... Given a choice, San Pablo (russian freighter) or the Brass wreck would make for a much more fascinating dive, imho. I'm not saying I wouldn't dive the oriskany given a chance, just that it's more of a "play" wreck than "experience" and "appreciate" wreck.

 

[Diver Dennis]

There is a difference between looking and seeing. Some divers like to zoom around and look at a reef while others like to take their time and see all the amazing plants and animals that make up a reef. It is all a state of mind.

 

[Thalassamania]

Oriskany Divemaster: I will come down and dive with you. It sounds like fun.

notabob: You're right, while it's fun ... it's kind of like a box of safe and sane fireworks on the 4th of July.