Rolling Eyes at LDS

[Web Monkey]

That's an interesting approach, to shape your logic under the fear that you won't get air fills, therefore you need to submit to the various negative things that have been posted above.

This is America, the land of opportunity and capitalism - you'll always be able to get an airfill. Do what you think and feel is right - don't be held hostage to the fact that the shop in question has a compressor - every other shop does too, and from the sounds fo the post, they might even be friendlier

Sure, I can always get an air fill.

However, right now, I can get any mix I want, 5 minutes from my house; they do great service and run a dive boat all summer.

If they close, the next closest is an hour round-trip (with no boat and much worse service) and after that, it's a 3 hour round trip for a fill.

If having a great well-stocked shop and first-class equipment service 5 minutes from home means that I bought a $50 snorkel and $200 fins 10 years ago, who cares? I certainly don't.

Time is valuable (at least mine is). If there's something I need on a regular basis (tank fills and service), it's much less expensive to do it in a place that takes essentially no time out of my day, regardless of whether or not it's the cheapest place on the planet for something I'll probably never need to buy again (equipment).

Terry

 

[drbill]

I get the rolling eyes response after I tell one of my jokes

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I get the rolling eyes response after I tell one of my jokes

So follow it up with a Joke for us

 

[vladimir]

Sure, I can always get an air fill.

However, right now, I can get any mix I want, 5 minutes from my house; they do great service and run a dive boat all summer.

If they close, the next closest is an hour round-trip (with no boat and much worse service) and after that, it's a 3 hour round trip for a fill.

If having a great well-stocked shop and first-class equipment service 5 minutes from home means that I bought a $50 snorkel and $200 fins 10 years ago, who cares? I certainly don't.

Time is valuable (at least mine is). If there's something I need on a regular basis (tank fills and service), it's much less expensive to do it in a place that takes essentially no time out of my day, regardless of whether or not it's the cheapest place on the planet for something I'll probably never need to buy again (equipment).

Terry

It sounds like your LDS provides a service that is valuable to you. How many other people value it? Is it enough to sustain a business? Or is it valuable to you because it is subsidized by new divers paying too much for their first set of gear? Would it still be valuable to you if they charged what it actually costs? Or would you make the drive to save $8 a tank, or whatever the subsidy is. Clearly, as you say, the $50 snorkel and $200 fins you bought a decade ago are not sustaining this shop, so you are, in a sense, free-loading off of those new divers. It's like a Ponzi or Madoff scheme, where the newcomers to the game get taken to pay off the earlier investors. Fine for you, but it sounds to me like the newcomers would be smart to look around for a better deal for themselves.

Unless the shop actually charges a fair price for gas and gear--then maybe they have a sustainable business.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

It sounds like your LDS provides a service that is valuable to you. How many other people value it? Is it enough to sustain a business? Or is it valuable to you because it is subsidized by new divers paying too much for their first set of gear? Would it still be valuable to you if they charged what it actually costs? Or would you make the drive to save $8 a tank, or whatever the subsidy is. Clearly, as you say, the $50 snorkel and $200 fins you bought a decade ago are not sustaining this shop, so you are, in a sense, free-loading off of those new divers. It's like a Ponzi or Madoff scheme, where the newcomers to the game get taken to pay off the earlier investors. Fine for you, but it sounds to me like they'd be smart to look around for a better deal for themselves.

Unless the shop actually charges a fair price for gas and gear--then maybe they have a sustainable business.

Well spoken Vladimir. For years the argument posed by the dive industry against using internet providers of gear was based on the "additional value received" from your local dive center. Well, for starters, the value doesn't come from a "dive center", rather, it comes from individual staff members, including owners. Some, in fact many, are great, know lots of information that is valuable, provide guidance and counseling, offer lots of opportunities to train or dive, etc. Others are just like many other less-than-customer-savvy business owners - and the value they provide is minimal. Sure, an air fill (or any other gas) five minutes away is a great plus, but if you can save 40% on several thousand dollars worth of gear how exactly do you quantify that "additional value received" by overpaying at the local dive center?

Dive business owners, myself included, have to recognize that the internet is not a passing fad, and that competition, both online and from other stores, is real. You don't have a 'lock' on your customers, and in fact you encourage them to look elsewhere, see others, and hopefully realize after doing so, that you offer the best deal around in value, training, travel, and gear. There's no risk of buyers remorse in that approach. If you find when they look elsewhere they don't come back, then it's time to look at yourself and see what you and your dive center are doing wrong!

 

[Web Monkey]

It sounds like your LDS provides a service that is valuable to you. How many other people value it? Is it enough to sustain a business?

Apparently so. They've been around since the 1950's

Or is it valuable to you because it is subsidized by new divers paying too much for their first set of gear?

How much is "too much?" I tried 3 sets of fins, 2 BCs and almost every mask they had in the pool before I bought my stuff.

I took their 8 week $350 OW class that covered often-omitted things like "how to not get my teeth knocked out or drown when re-boarding a boat", how to actually plan and execute my own dives, be responsible for my own safety and say "No" when the DM wants to do something stupid.

What's that worth?

Terry

 

[vladimir]

Apparently so. They've been around since the 1950's

The first 45 years were the easy part.

How much is "too much?" I tried 3 sets of fins, 2 BCs and almost every mask they had in the pool before I bought my stuff.

I took their 8 week $350 OW class that covered often-omitted things like "how to not get my teeth knocked out or drown when re-boarding a boat", how to actually plan and execute my own dives, be responsible for my own safety and say "No" when the DM wants to do something stupid.

What's that worth?

Terry

I think you're missing my point here a little. It's not a question of what it's worth, it's a question of what the market will bear. I think it's great if your shop can make a profit on value-added services like quality instruction. Unfortunately, most can't. It will take a mass exodus from the business by the weaker shops to allow the others to charge fair prices for their services. Maybe that's $500 for OW instruction and $15 for a fill. I don't know what the numbers will be, but right now they offer their services below cost and then try to recoup their losses by charging more than their internet competitors for equipment. Not a sustainable business model.

 

[ddahl]

"Scuba Certification $99". What it doesn't state is that you are required to purchase your equipment from the shop prior to the class. I signed up for a refresher course to keep my daughter company during her class. I was resigned to outfitting the entire family if she enjoyed the experience. I couldn't have been prepared for the aweful experience we were about to encounter.
It pays to service your customers and leave them feeling that they are special. I estimate that we've spent nearly $7,000 on our equipment alone. So much for saving money on the special offer...... Their loss!

WOW! I am so shocked to read your post! I have been a customer of Big Johns for about 9 years. Do you know that with 14 locations they have never had an accident in more than 20+ years. THey are totally comitted to excellence in Dive training. Big John certified me in the old deerfield location and my family and I followed him to the new shop. I have been particularly pleased with his ability to work with children as his commitment to safety is well above other dive shops. In fact, I had John and his team certify a group of my heavy hitting clients and even had them do the training dives off my yacht. These guys are professional Dive Instructors not dive bums.

One thing I will say is that if you were looking to dictate "how it was going to be" to big John then you were sadly mistaken. He will work with you on anything to make your experience great but he won't be told how to do it. He will educate, guide and suggest items that will make your experience better but he will follow the rules at all cost.

I would say you took your parkland attitude in there and got completly blown out. As for the pricing..... I have always comparison shopped and Big John has never let me down. I think they have a "won't be undersold" policy across the board but I have never seen prices lower than SCUBA NETWORKS probably because they have large buying power.

Frankly, I think that if you want to be treated "SPECIAL" then you should act special. Customer service experiences are generally a lot like a mirror. You probably got what you reflected. You probably acted poorly and found out that just does not fly. Who ever said the "customer was always right".... must have been a rude customer....

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

WOW! I am so shocked to read your post! I have been a customer of Big Johns for about 9 years. Do you know that with 14 locations they have never had an accident in more than 20+ years. THey are totally comitted to excellence in Dive training. Big John certified me in the old deerfield location and my family and I followed him to the new shop. I have been particularly pleased with his ability to work with children as his commitment to safety is well above other dive shops. In fact, I had John and his team certify a group of my heavy hitting clients and even had them do the training dives off my yacht. These guys are professional Dive Instructors not dive bums.

One thing I will say is that if you were looking to dictate "how it was going to be" to big John then you were sadly mistaken. He will work with you on anything to make your experience great but he won't be told how to do it. He will educate, guide and suggest items that will make your experience better but he will follow the rules at all cost.

I would say you took your parkland attitude in there and got completly blown out. As for the pricing..... I have always comparison shopped and Big John has never let me down. I think they have a "won't be undersold" policy across the board but I have never seen prices lower than SCUBA NETWORKS probably because they have large buying power.

Frankly, I think that if you want to be treated "SPECIAL" then you should act special. Customer service experiences are generally a lot like a mirror. You probably got what you reflected. You probably acted poorly and found out that just does not fly. Who ever said the "customer was always right".... must have been a rude customer....

Interesting post......sorta reads like a testimonial! I wonder what the connection is......

 

[ddahl]

NO FLAMES PLEASE the connection.... its clearly stated... I am a loyal customer... and also, I own a chain of retail clothng stores so perhaps the testimonial is a bit of pent up retail on my part LOL.

I used to be in the furniture business and once had a guy come in and buy a sectional sofa he then informed me if I did not take it back he would throw it through the window. Turns our one of my regular customers informed me that the guy lost his job and could no longer afford the purchase.... I always feel there are two sides to every story. I am sure his side of the story was very different than mine......